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heatpro02920

heatpro02920

Joined on January 28, 2013

Last Post on June 25, 2014

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In my area

@ June 25, 2014 7:14 AM in Whole house de-humidifier

I usually try to install central as with an air exchanger vs a dehumidifier, some places have more humidity issues and need a designated unit, but in most cases the ac works well...
I am installing 2 ultra aire units in a 2400 sq ft 2 story home in a couple weeks, their home will not stay comfortable with just central a/c, they need to set the temp way to cold to keep the humidity down on days where the dew point is any where near the air temp... But the house has some issues, running water under a crawl space {half slab on grade half 3' ft dirt crawl}..
Anyway, I use honey well, april aire, ultra aire, ect, they are all decent, you do get what you pay for, but they are now all pretty close in price, like always the install is going to be the make or break issue- size it correctly, install it by the book, insulate well, and set the controls up correctly....

Yes the co120x

@ May 27, 2014 2:17 PM in Carbon Monoxide/Smoke Alarm Interlock

is pretty much identical to the item I listed, normally a couple bucks more, I have used both and I have both in my stock bin, but rm4 is easier to remember than co120x, lol... I buy which ever is in stock, there is also another unit that comes in a box, I forget the part number {GE brand} but its sealed with screw/lug conns, and costs 3 times as much as the rm4,..

I am sure it will be code everywhere soon {not that its a bad thing, if it saves 1 life then its worth it and the idea has the potential to do so}, then after its code there will be a few brands to choose from for a few years then after that Honeywell and the other control companies will build it into their controls, by then another new safety issue will come up and someone will come up with a way to warn and prevent it and we will be discussing that, its a viscous circle....

9120B is the actual number

@ May 27, 2014 6:33 AM in Carbon Monoxide/Smoke Alarm Interlock

http://www.brkelectronics.com/product/SC9120B
pretty simple to wire wire the 3 wire side of the detector as you would normally wire 2 detectors together- l1, l2 and signal, then on the other side of the rm4 wire the brown in from l1 and the grey out to the boilers l1 feed {I wire it before the fireomatic}, there is also a blue contact you can wire to an external 120v alarm or strobe...

read the instructions, I may have mixed up some of the colors, I haven't done it in over a month...

PS if you are doing this on a gas boiler and dont want to wire it high voltage you can break 24v to the gas valve and wire it in how a roll out would be wired, but this makes things tougher since you need hv and lv in the same box...

As far as it being a bad idea, I think its coming and it will be here to stay, so it will get "perfected" and we will live with it, like we did LWCO's, high limits, firomatics, proving switches, ect , I have installed a bunch of these setups with the cheap co's and the relay, they havent caused any negative effects as of yet, I install them a little ways from the units and they are on the ceiling, so IMO if co gets up there and at a level to set the unit off having the boiler shut down isn't a bad idea, now if the customer ignores a co detector or resets it or unplugs it ect, they will still be calling for service when they have no DHW or heat, that's when a pro can come and look at it.. I have stickers printed with my number and co on them that says "In the event of an alarm please turn stairway emergency switches to off position, evacuate area, and call for service." Not that I expect many to follow the instructions since I have a sticker I put on the oil boilers I service that says "DO NOT DEPRESS RESET BUTTON MORE THAN ONE TIME! CALL FOR SERVICE EVEN IF BURNER RUNS AFTER RESET!" and I still go to house where they pressed it 25 times because they thought it was running for 15 seconds at a time...

I take it you

@ May 23, 2014 6:27 PM in Are you in the market for a Thermal Imager?

go the email, good luck..

New threader came yesterday

@ May 22, 2014 7:19 AM in Time for a new threader....

The new ridgid 300 arrived yesterday one of my guys threw it together and made a few nipples with it to make sure everything was good...

It is amazing at how much these have gone up in price since I bought my first one...
if you buy a 300, with an extra 811, the nipple chuck, and a 141 with the drive bar and keeper loop you will spend almost $7000, and you will still need a tristand and a roller stand which is another $500 or so plus a 4s and a large reamer thats another $400 onto of that!!!!
Granted that will get you threading from 1/2" to 4" which will do for 90% of residential and medium commercial stuff, but its a good sized investment for a pipe threader...

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00140TQNW/ref=pe_808750_118750230_em_1p_0_ti
http://www.amazon.com/Ridgid-51005-Nipple-Chuck-2-inch-2-inch/dp/B0015BGEDU/ref=pd_bxgy_hi_img_y
http://www.amazon.com/Ridgid-36620-Receding-Geared-Threader/dp/B001AI241O/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1400757185&sr=1-1&keywords=ridgid+141
http://www.amazon.com/Power-Threading-Geared-Threader-Accessories/dp/B004FCLFOE/ref=sr_1_2?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1400757228&sr=1-2&keywords=ridgid+drive+844
http://www.amazon.com/Ridgid-19366-Replacement-Threader-Machines/dp/B001ASD3BE/ref=sr_1_3?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1400757263&sr=1-3&keywords=ridgid+141
http://www.amazon.com/Ridgid-97065-Universal-Opening-Oiling/dp/B0002DOK5G/ref=sr_1_2?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1400757289&sr=1-2&keywords=ridgid+811a


They did a demo of the Ridgid 258 for me, and I like it a lot, but the price is kind of steep since I hardly do any big pipe threading any more.... But it works awesome...

I emailed it to you

@ May 21, 2014 6:25 PM in Are you in the market for a Thermal Imager?

what is your email?

How to save customers money

@ May 19, 2014 9:16 AM in How to save customers money

I go to customers homes and everyone wants to save money {well, almost everyone}, and the first thing I look at it USE, it is the easiest and least expensive place to save money. Next of course is loss {tighten the envelope} then equipment efficiency.
BUT everyone jumps rite into efficiency, which to me is the last step and one of the most expensive. The truth of the matter is USE is going to save you the most for your investment... Now with the HUGE price differences in energy types I also factor in fuel cost but for the most part where NG is piped they get NG where it is not they get lp or oil....

Anyway, I have a customer that lives alone in a 1700 sq foot home, built in the 50's with upgraded windows and doors, he called me and asked about a new LP boiler {his choices are lp, oil, electric}. I installed his existing unit in 2009, its a Buderus g115 with a 40 ga smart tank, ODR, outside air, everything but delta t pumps {was before I really started pushing them}, but he was spending, in his opinion "way too much on oil". Now mostly because oil is expensive, if it was 80 cents a gallon no one would complain or care about HE boilers...

So I explained that his boiler is brand new and he will definitely loose money even if the LP boiler was 100% efficient, he wasn't getting it so I told him that when I had time I would stop by and go over it with him, which I did, and after a 30 minutes conversation about efficiency and equipment life span we were on the same page... So I offered to go through his "habits" and see if we could tighten up with out spending a ton of money...

I started with his schedule, he lives alone, works 4 days 10 hour each- Tues to Fri and he has every, Sat-Mon off, so he is home for most if not all of them days, then I went to his comfort, he keeps the house at 72 all winter, he has a basic round tstat and never touches it, next was the building itself, nothing jumped out at me as an issue, newer windows, tight doors, 2x4 construction with old but decent insulation so nothing worth really ripping apart- except the attic which only has a few inches of old blown in stuff...

Now we talked budget, he didn't care what he spent, but he wanted it back before he died, lol....
So I put together a little plan to start, I started with DHW, he already had propane in the house for a genny and stove so I installed a Rinnai tankless water heater, a new high sierra shower head and I changed his kitchen faucet for him {he had an old single handle with no filter in it that leaked, I put in a nice tankless friendly 2 handle}...

next was the attic insulation, Atlas sucked out his old shredded newspaper and put as much r30 as they could get in there, I did a blower door test and the house was tight, we fixed a few little issues but it was all 5 minute foam and caulking stuff...

Now zoning and setbacks - he had 2 baseboard zones so I left that alone except he had 3 bedrooms on the upstairs zone and only used one, so I installed a zone valve and bypass so he could control his bedroom alone and turn down the other 2. I installed 2 programmable tstats and moved one of his old ones to the new guest bedroom zone, which he felt comfortable keeping at 50 degrees. So we set his tstats up for his lifestyle, I may not remember exactly but I believe it was set to 70 when he was home 55 away and the bedroom zone and living space zones were setup for his use, 1st floor down to 62 for his sleeping hours, ect...

So after all of that was dealt with, he had a new tankless, low flow shower heads, better zoning, better insulation, and seemed to be happy with what we did, EXCEPT he wanted more, lol... So I told him about solid fuel, and he was interested, I ended up installing a small automatic coal stoker, which IMO he was perfect for, being home for 3 days in a row is perfect, he can start the stove when he gets home on Friday and let it run until he goes to work on Tuesday in the cold months...

So we got everything done last year {I believe I made a post about it when we were doing it, but I couldn't find it in search} and he just gave me a call first thing this morning... He wants to put central A/C in as soon as possible, he wants a heat pump system {I must have mentioned it to him} and said the money he saved will help pay for it, so I asked what he spent this year, he said half of last year and it was much colder this winter...
He said it worked perfect the boiler hardly ran, he fed the coal stove on his 3 days off and let the boiler handle the rest of the week, he burnt around a ton of coal {$300} and said he loved the heat it gave... I am going to try and get there in a couple weeks to spec the a/c system {really behind rite now} and if he goes for it he will be able to run the heat pumps in the shoulder months, coal when he wants to and oil when he has to.
It is very similar to my homes system, I run coal, lp, and heatpumps but because someone is almost always home at my house the setbacks dont really get used, BUT we can run coal all winter, I NEVER ran my lp boiler this year, heated with just coal...

Anyway, I figured I would share, maybe someone is in a similar situation and can use the ideas...

sounds like

@ May 19, 2014 8:09 AM in Rinnai trouble shooting

water flow control assembly needs to be replaced, check the harness out and make sure the connections are all in good shape, if they are the flow control may need to be replaced, I had a bad flow sensor that acted similar though.....

Which flow control is it the gray box onto p of the brass valve or the black box onto pf the valve?

Get some prices on the parts, figure worse case, sensor, control, board, if the unit is pretty old may be a better option to just throw a new one on the wall.
I learned a while back once the units flood or freeze sometimes it is better to just throw a new one on the wall, it takes 30 minutes, especially if the unit is older, a new one may be a good idea, sell the old one on ebay for parts, and be done with it.. I had a customer sell his old rinnai {lightening hit the panel and cooked 90% of the electronics in the house, the rinnai didnt make it} on ebay for $200 less than a new one cost me, so it may be a good option...

I think

@ May 17, 2014 6:58 AM in What do you think of this product?

you will need gallons and F to start, lol...

And a timer function would be nice, I actually have a timer in my shower and my sons shower, we used to have digital ones but they broke so I found some hour glass types that are 5 minutes, you can see when its running out and rinse off...

Also I am not sure what the software looks like but some kind of app that lets you enter your units specs, like efficiency, cost for fuel, type of fuel, ect so you can see what an actual shower costs you per minute would be nice...

As most of you know I am always looking for ways to cut DHW costs for customers, we use a RU98 with high sierra shower heads and a hybrid tank in the summer months{acts as a prestage for the tankless in the winter months} {soon to be reworked}...
this is a cool site for figuring out dhw savings http://www.showermanager.com/conservation-store/shower-savings.shtml

So as far as saving money goes, without a timer or a little flashing dollar amount that constantly goes up while you are in the shower, I don't see how this will save more money than a $25 shower head and a $5 timer, BUT if you can somehow incorporate them with this product it could be very nice... I am sure its worth the asking price, but I am on the side of saving money by not spending it, so I personally see spending $60 on something that just tells me if I am saving or not as kind of a waste, and in my experience electronics inside a steamy shower dont last long, so I personally would probably not buy it if I wasnt in the HVAC field, since I am I have to have one, lol...

Anyway, I like the idea, I would market it with a water saving shower head, so far I found the high sierra to be the best and use the least amount of water, the pressure is intense, and I get around 1.4 gpm and under, but it feels better than 2.5+ heads... Thats going to be the key- package deal, use this item to sell and show how much a 1.4gpm head saves you per shower...

I miss my old 270

@ May 16, 2014 8:41 PM in Time for a new threader....

that thing was great, worked like a horse, easy to setup and move around, simple to use, I always wondered why they never made an adapter for the ridgid 700 on the idea of the 270? That would be a great little threader.... you dont see 270s around anymore, I got rid of mine years ago because it needed a cord and a switch, sold it for $300 to the kid that worked at grainger..

I tried a couple different machines..

@ May 16, 2014 8:36 PM in Time for a new threader....

I tried a Rothenberger supertronic, they brought up 2 of them to my shop for me to try, I felt bad they had to wait an hour and a half for me to get back there to test it out, but we bought them lunch... The brought a 2" and a 3", the 3" machine is pretty nice, almost identical just larger, and they also make a 4"... The 2" machine that would compare to a 300 was nice, I have to say I like their die head and auto oiler, plus the automatic release, although when I asked how hard it was to rebuild the die head they said its easy to change dies but not so easy to disassemble and rebuild it all together, there are balls and springs and all kinds of stuff in there...
The prices were fair, considering comparing the 4" model to a 1224, the ridgid would be around double the cost!! But also the 1224 is 510 lbs and the 4" rothenberger is 250....
same goes for the 300 vs the 2" machine the 300 is around 80lbs heavier...

Although the ridgid supposingly has a 1/2hp motor and the rothenbergers have 1 and a 1/2 hp!!! BUT I showed them my 300 that is old and used, turns pipe easier, not sure why {they said its gearing} but the 300's just spin with ease and the others sound like they are working....

I also took a ride to a friend of mines shop after work and he showed me his wheeler 8097, it works very well, but I don't think it will be as easy to break down and setup although I like the self oilers a lot, it would be nice not to have to cart around the oil buckets...

I have some thinking to do...

Ill bet the installers reason was

@ May 16, 2014 8:22 PM in Buderus G124

the 6" was there from the old boiler, lol...

Its a good place to start looking, check the drafts {all of the combustion for that matter, keeping a close eye on stack temps}, normally I find condensation issues with larger boilers, boilers using mixing valves, or emitters large enoug hto create huge deltas, since the g124's are smaller units, I am kind of surprised its condensing enough to create problems...

If the problem is not the combustion or venting and is indeed an issue that adjustments, outside combustion air, reworking venting, ect can not fix, and you need to close the delta you have a few options, one of course is pri secondary or a bypass pipe, but another is a delta circ on each zone, like a bumble bee, set the delta and forget it...

Combustion test?

@ May 16, 2014 8:01 PM in Buderus G124

I would start there, piping primary sec is a good idea as is the liner, but make sure you are running rite... What is your stack temp? What does the venting config look like?

henry

@ May 16, 2014 1:58 PM in New water heater

Thats exactly the way most customers go, completely remove it put in a nice furnace with a capable gas dhw tank...

Lennox has some really good equipment out there, they make a 98% varimodcon furnace that is one of the nicest in the field, I have seen their 2 stage and other furnaces last a very long time with no service, most companies will have a hiccup here and there, that was one of theirs for sure..

I do the same thing, when I haven't seen something in a while

@ May 16, 2014 7:00 AM in 3-wire Nest to WM EG boiler?

yesterday I had to wire a 6006 into a 8148j so they had a low limit, I could not for the life of me remember exactly how to do it, I had to look it up but couldn't find the info anywhere, so I had to trial and error it until I got it rite, 3 trys was the magic number, I know with the 8148a its simple just wire R to r1 take out the jumper to 3 and wire 3 to the center wire of the 6006 then the bottom wire to the top of the 8148a's limit dials terminals, with a j its almost the same except, remove the jumper from w to z and jump z to tp hooking them to the center of the 6006, confusing to say the least, now I wont do it again for 8 years and I will have to figure it out all over again... Ill have to look up this post to remember...

The vertex is going to cost as much

@ May 16, 2014 6:48 AM in New water heater

as an inexpensive gas boiler {williamson} and its not a boiler its a water heater. Is their hydro air unit still in good working shape, I would check the coil, get the btu and temp ratings, do a heat loss, and install a small ci boiler, they have already fell for what I call the "brochure bs" once with the system they have, no reason to do it to them again with a navian, lol... I really don't like Navian, just personal preference from what I see and my experiences, I am sure there are units out there that will last 15 years, I have just yet to see one...

A ci boiler, with a 40 ga water heater {if they can afford a rinnai tankless that would be a plus} would do this customer well, the tank may only last 5 years but if you do the boiler rite {pri/sec} it should see 40 years with out much service..

I am just a ridgid guy

@ May 15, 2014 10:27 PM in Time for a new threader....

Not sure why, just grew up with it in my hands and feel comfortable with it... Lifetime warranties don't hurt either, I had a shop vac that was at least 8 years old, I called up to see how much a new motor was because the ss can and plastic housings were all still good, but the motor dies {we used it a lot}, they said "its free", I got it in about 2 weeks, threw it in and still have that vac...

Also I had a ridgid 300 stand wear out, just opened and closed too much I guess, sent me a new middle section and hardware kit for it, no questions asked...

Obviously they are not going to cover my second hand 300, lol but maybe I should give it a shot...

Anyway just to add insult to injury one of my pipe welders smoked today, just a puff of smoke and no longer works, probably some kind of inverter failure....

That eg should be 24v

@ May 15, 2014 7:33 AM in 3-wire Nest to WM EG boiler?

I believe. if not paul is correct you can use a sr {the tacos have 24v aux} or depending on the setup the nest can be configured to just be powered during a call for heat {I dont know how well this works}, but if you have a milli system or something that you can not grab 24v from {or your manufacturer doesn't allow it, I think Buderus states it will void warranty to use power consuming controls off of their systems} you can use a RIB...

heres a quick drawing, you will of course need a 24v trans and a rib spst... BUT the EG should be 24v, now if wm voids warranty for using a tstat with a load I don't know...

RIB u1c is the rib number I believe and any 24vac sec 120v pri transformer will do the trick, I have used the off the shelf 40va's a bunch of times to power t-stats... My coal furnaces entire control system is ran off a 40va with rib's, controls all the tstats, feeder motors, zone damps, ect...

Thats a Complete Heat System

@ May 15, 2014 6:20 AM in New water heater

Looks like an HM30, strap in and hold on, lol they are trash...

The heating module works like a boiler and the furnace is like a first company hydro air unit...

I replaced a bunch of them in a few condo/townhouse complexes.. They are trouble and expensive to repair, I believe Lennox settled a big class action because of them...

Anyway, you have a few options, replace the unit with a gas boiler and water heater, then use the water coil module just like you would a first co unit, or you can install a new 90+ furnace and a water heater, ect...

I have done it many ways, the hydro coils aren't great so I try to talk people into completely ripping out the lennox stuff and going with either a new furnace and water heater or new first co boiler and water heater, you can obviously do the furnace and water heater cheaper than a boiler, first co, and water heater...

I personally would try to sell them a nice Armstrong 97mv with a Rinnai RU series tankless, simple efficient, and you should be able to get it all done in less than a day... You get a lot of upsells too, like uv lights, steam humidifiers, air filters, ect... Plus depending on your local' there will be a few rebates for them, variable speed ecm, mod con 90+, condensing tankless, programmables, ect.. That would be over $1000 in rebates around here..

John

@ May 14, 2014 7:35 AM in 3-wire Nest to WM EG boiler?

I seen this in controls, but wasnt sure what you were asking, I am guessing you want to power the nest so it will charge itself?

If so wire rw as you would normally and wire c to the other side of the transformer...

On the nest I believe it is the top W, then c is in the middle, and then RH is at the bottom all on the right side... All you are doing is giving the t stat both legs of your 24v instead of just one leg, in other words normally a 2 wire tstat just has say the negative leg and it breaks it or makes it, it acts like a switch...
Now you want to power the tstat with it so you need both legs pos and neg, so you need to bring that up from the source of the 24vac, so wire it to the other leg... Find the transformer, and hook C up to the missing leg...

What is the heatloss

@ May 14, 2014 6:12 AM in Hot Water Options

Like I said a couple times, you need to do a proper heatloss calc and then take a walk around the apartments and see what their DHW load is {dish washers, washing machines, bath fixtures, ect}. That 140K is most likely way over sized..

Now as far as not running the boiler in the summer months, I like the idea, BUT not at the cost of having to maintain an additional pair of hot water tanks...

If the current 40 ga indirect is working in the winter I also don't see the point in going up to a 60...

If the 2 electrics are in good shape and working leave them alone, if they have no complaints about the 40 gallon indirect then either install another one or if that one is still in good shape leave that alone too... You would do your customer more good, just installing a proper sized boiler with their existing DHW system...

Now if they do actually have a 140k BTU heat load and you want to do something "fancy", you can install dual boilers, I have done this many times in larger homes

Last year I installed dual OWT3's {ci oil fired with tankless}, the buildings heat loss was rite under 150K, I set the burners up for the load then wired them so burner 1 would only fire until 2 was needed, I piped them so both boilers were hot all the time, primary secondary with the primary loop going in and out of both boilers. I only used 1 aquastat and it was placed in boiler 2's well so both boilers would stay to temp letting both tanklesses stay hot....

That gave them a lot of hot water and gave them the efficiency of running a single small boiler when thats all they needed and then in the colder months running them both to keep up with the load....

That house was very large and also 2 family {rented inlaw}, it had 7 zones and held a lot of water, I did the near boiler piping with 1 1/2" {could have done 1 1/4} and insulated it very well, I used an alpha delta P pump for the primary loop and 007s for each zone {piped in with closely spaced tees}...
I spoke to them about a month ago and they said their automatic delivery company told them they were down a good amount from the previous year per degree day... Granted they were firing a 20 year old 210K BTU burnham with an amtrol 60 both of which had seen better days, but a savings is a savings..

Another plus to this is when one burner goes down you still have heat, it takes a little thinking {I have the drawings and pics if you need them} and a little more work but the outcome will be better than a single big boiler and indirect... The cost in materials is not as different as you may think though, when comparing dual OWT3's to say a G215-4 and indirect it can come out to less money in materials, the 150K plus oil fired units have a good jump in price...

The owts also get 86-1/2% eff. This would allow you to get rid of the 40 gallon indirect, and stop the stagnant water issues they are most likely getting from having the tank not flow for the summer....


PS: I'm not sure I understand what the well water difference makes in costs? I would much rather pay for city water and not maintain a well and pay for the electricity it uses... And they are going to use the same amonut of water no matter which way you go with the dhw equipment, am I missing something?

I like the ridgid 300

@ May 13, 2014 4:29 PM in Time for a new threader....

I have used the others, and the 300 gets my vote, if its setup correctly, and you use ss dies, it threads great, one person can move it around and put it up or down... The rex machine is like the 300 compact....

I have all ridgid threaders, plus I like having all the threaders matching, and I have at least 10 811a's set up with various dies...
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