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heatpro02920

heatpro02920

Joined on January 28, 2013

Last Post on April 17, 2014

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Is that the one

@ March 29, 2013 3:03 PM in Need Assistance with a Laing EcoCirc EM1

with the timer on it for DHW recirc? I have a bad one somewhere replaced it with a grundfos up15-14b I believe.... But you can get the one Im thinking of on amazon with free prime shipping..

edit- this one? http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=laing

I like the grundfos better, since I have seen on of them in the field and it was bad, lol... maybe a good product, I just don't see them ever, and the one I did see needed to be replaced...

LOL

@ March 29, 2013 6:47 AM in I hate some subs...

Pest control too? Wow thats an all in one business... When I first opened my first deli, I was waiting for the delivery vehicles to get lettered so used one of my toyotas that is lettered for the hvac co. for delivery, it created some confusion, people would answer the door and tell the delivery kid that their was no problem with their heat...

Did you

@ March 29, 2013 6:43 AM in rheem warm air furnace

call Rheem tech support? Sounds like a gas valve, is this a natural draft installation?

Nice job Chris

@ March 28, 2013 9:44 PM in Direct vent furnace leaking water?

I rebuilt {well recapped} the amplifier in my wurlitzer 1080 Jukebox {I restored the box myself, took 5 years and cost me around $7K not including the $5K for the box unrestored} but I have been offered $15K for it so not a bad way to spend 5 years I guess... And I have seen the DIY amplifier kits on parts-express.com and have been interested but never pulled the trigger....

I like the old advents, and the old Klipsch a friend of mine has some cornwalls that sound amazing... I like tube stuff to, but not for sound quality, more for the ambiance, I have an intergrated tube amp with some tekton lores in my bedroom that are nice for what they are, but for the money that costs you can get a real nice system...

eh

@ March 28, 2013 9:32 PM in snow melt boilers damaged by flood

If the salt water wasnt in there to long, I would think you could get them to work safely... Like I said I did it, I didnt sell them as new, I kept one fore myself and gave one to a friend like I said, but still if you have the time, I would think its worth the effort.... I am that type of guy though, I remember rebuilding the flooded buderus, It sat on a shelf in my home garage for a while, then that winter on the day after xmass, my house was full of people who came up for the holidays {we have 3 spare bedrooms so end up entertaining any out of town family} so I was in the garage looking for some silence when I grabbed the boiler and threw it on the bench, I actually had one of my techs bring me the seal kit that was on his truck... It didn't take long, and that thing looked brand new when I was done, I could have sold it as new but wouldn't just because its not worth the risk, not that anything would happen but what if the customer calls for a warranty and they say "that unit is 3 years old", so you don't do things like that if your name is on the doors....

Take some pics... Did you rinse them out when you pulled them out, that would have helped with the salt water for sure... Sucks to throw away a million btus of boilers..

I hate some subs...

@ March 28, 2013 9:24 PM in I hate some subs...

I'm doing a new construction job, heat and DHW, has been going on for a long time, they are weather tight now but I took a deposit on this job 2 years ago!! So it has been a process, the home owner is contracting it himself and he has had problems with the banks, DEM, and local town officials, I think if it were me I would have gave up by now, but anyway I got the call that they were hanging wall boards next week, my inspections are all done except for the final but I wanted to at least stop by and make sure I didn't forget anything...

I noticed a messy roll of t-stat wire hanging on my boiler and I couldn't figure out where it came from, but I figured it out pretty fast, I installed a Buderus gas boiler, 2 First co. air handlers, and a Rinnai water heater. Now the electrician ran all my thermostat wires, but I ran the wires for my Rinnai controllers, they have 3 plus the one on the unit, 1 in the master bath, 1 in the laundry room, and 1 in the kitchen.
Normally I would have the electrician do the wires, but this isn't a normal house where you see the subs here and there, I was literally the only one in the house when I was working... So I had my guy run the wires, everything passed inspections and I did it rite... But for some reason the electrician figured he would rip it all up and throw it on my boiler, so I called the homeowner he called the electrician and he said "yeah, I ripped it out, Im not letting people run wire on my permit!!!" So the home owner tells me, and I told him "look, I'm not putting them back up, the wire is there, I put it up once, you want them controls installed, you run it" He understood and said he would do it, but it just goes to show you how some guys are just not all there...

Everyone else on the job seemed easy to deal with, I told the plumber to run 2 knob faucets everywhere if he could, and he did, I asked the roofer if he could flash in my vents a certain way and he did, the sprinkler guy asked me if I could stub out a drain for him and I did, that is normally how this stuff works, but some times you run into a complete jerk.... this is one of them cases, but he only hurt his customer and himself because now I know him, and next time I see him, Im going to mention how he behaved and he's going to have to answer for his actions...

Hey Pat

@ March 28, 2013 8:48 PM in snow melt boilers damaged by flood

Just seen your post, I did this with a Buderus GB142 and an older Rinnai unit. No hurricane but the homeowner thought it would be a good idea to run his sump pumps drain down to a pond the edge of his property, so after a quick trip to home depot he succeeded, and did a good job burying the pipe... EXCEPT he did not install a check valve and ended up emptying that pond into his basement, I honestly never seen so much water in a basement before {and this has happened to more than one customer of mine, LOL}, first time that pump ran it filled the pipe and when the pump shut off it came back into the basement and never stopped...

But anyway, He needed new everything, circulators, units were about 2 years old at the time, breaker box, ect... I replaced the units and kept the old ones, I took the buderus completely apart, dried it out and reassembled it with new seals {just like if I rebuilt one for a customer}, powered the unit up and it worked, just the am10 was bad... Next was the rinnai, that needed a board, fan motor, and a flow sensor but they are both still in service today, the GB went to a fellow tradesman for his own house and the Rinnai is in one of my properties....

So I wouldn't scrap them, and if you are send me some pics Ill give you something for them.... The fist thing I would do is get one open on the bench, and completely go through it.... Then power it up, you may be surprised, and if it needs a few parts, you make the decision then if its worth it, Rinnai covered all the parts I needed and I had an extra am10 buderus shipped me and ended up not being the problem from another unit, so it was a score all the way around for me...

It was salt water, correct?, From rain or ocean?

I would

@ March 28, 2013 7:43 PM in Endurance installation manual question

start a new thread, include pictures of your system so people can tell you exactly what you are looking at since no systems are done the same... And it will make instructions much easier, ie: turn the blue valve counter clockwise and open the red faucet, ect...

I'm going to guess

@ March 28, 2013 3:18 PM in Sandy still haunts my home!

the pumps are pumping the correct way, or the same direction as they were on the old boiler... Since they are mounted low, and the contractor who did the job obviously just did a fast pull and push installation... And I would say the old system had the circs on the return like most older systems.. So that I don't thin is the problem....

And as already stated a 007 should be enough to pump this system unless there is something I am not seeing...

We need to know what else the contractor changed?

Were the original pumps 00's? or did they look different? Like big electric motors with an exposed coupling?

If you are up to it I will tell you exactly what I would do on your service call...

First check the boilers temp and pressure {should be 180 high limit and around 20psi under 30 obviously

then I would call in the second floor thermostat and make sure the circulator was moving the water, in the rite direction {hence when the circ kicks in {you can normally hear or feel it} the pipe coming out of the boilers top should get hot and the one going in the bottom should get cold warm then hot {depending where you are in the cycle}.

After that happened I would go and check the temps in the radiators to see if they are getting warmer... also keeping an eye on the zone not calling, to make sure the heat wasnt going to another zone.

If they are not, I am thinking AIR first, so I will bleed the entire system then the radiators individually....

If the problem persisted I would think circulation, I would do a quick measurement of pipe and rads to see what pump you needed, if you were close, I would quickly change the pumps cartridge to see if that helped...

If that still did not get me in the rite direction, I would get my thermal imager and see where the heat was going, {easy if the pipes are exposed but hard if they are not}, if the rads that are not heating up are getting passed by I would think there is a problem with the v-tees, that is if the 180* water was leaving the boiler and traveling to the radiator but not going into it and going all the way through the system and returning to the boiler at say 175* and the rads are only seeing a couple degrees on their second pipe...

So if the boilers pressures and temps are good, the heat is going in the rite direction with no check valves and or closed valves and the correct sized pump {as in leaving 180 and returning 170+ with the rads
feed never going over 150 or so}...


My next action would be a system flushing, back washing, and good conditioning/cleaning, at that time I would install a return t/p gauge {so i can watch the temps and pressures on the return and supply}.

If your problem still persisted I would want to install a globe valve on the single pipe loop in between the rads feed and return so I could force the water through them with a simple adjustment.. At that time I would try to talk you into buying some delta tee circulators {they work awesome with old radiator systems, but would first want to figure out your problem since it could make it worse} and letting me move the circs to the return..

I am confident it would be fixed after all that is done, lol... But I hate to say it wouldn't be cheap....

I would love to see someone with a t-imager go over there, see where the heat is going, I had a similar problem with a customer that had a new boiler installed, they switched from oil to gas and their radiators were sucking the heat out too fast, the boiler would go rite to 180 but after the first radiator the water was already down to 130*, I ended up putting a faster' pump in and moving the water faster, this helped but the boiler couldnt keep up, so luckily it was a a first floor loop with the piping basement exposed, so I ended up installing a bunch of globe valves and spending the time there tuning the system to get it rite, also ended up splitting the zones up a little bit... It was just a case of the new boilers mass was too low for the old systems needs, they had some re-purposed commercial radiators that I never seen before, and boy could they suck the heat out of water...

Leaking outside or inside?

@ March 28, 2013 3:03 PM in Direct vent furnace leaking water?

Is it leaking outside the house like a dripping faucet out the exhaust, I take it this is a 90+ condensing unit? If so no worries {depending on make/model I suppose but for the most part no worries, its condensing}, if its leaking inside on the floor then yes I would call the installer or a qualified tech...

C'mon Chris lets see pics of this theater, I am an A/v guy {not professional, and much more on the audio side than the video, I just finished the sound system in my front Parlor, Music only 1200+watt 2.2 system, about as direct a path as you can get, digital signal goes from the IPAD to the DAC to the Amps to the Speakers and to your ears...

Good point John

@ March 28, 2013 7:22 AM in Customers are confused when it comes to gas conversions...

I am in no way against changing over to gas, because oil obviously is soon going to be a thing of the past, but don't toss out a functioning boiler with decades of service left in it, to save 1/2 of what the boiler costs...

And Im sure tossing out a 2 year old boiler is not good for your carbon footprint either...

get the rite pump

@ March 27, 2013 7:36 PM in Sandy still haunts my home!

I would figure out what you need for a pump and buy that one, measure the pipe, emmitters, and figure it out... I would start there....

I did it a little different...

@ March 27, 2013 7:12 PM in One Rad hydronic system

I did a towel warmer at my sisters house, kind of unorth. type, I ran it to her DHW recric system, so it was always 120 degrees and it had domestic hot water return in it... I first put it in the supply side but had to repipe it to the return since it was cooling her hot water too much... Just talk the customer into a recric system, put the pump in the basement pipe the 3/8" up from the water heater to the towel warmer and then connect the other side to the hot water line... EZ PZ....

If you are bent on making it stand alone, I would use an electric tankless with a Grundfos up15-10b5 t {I believe that is it, is 1/2 sweat connections, bronze with a timer...} 003 is even smaller and also comes in 1/2 swt...

$1000 a month?

@ March 27, 2013 6:34 PM in Customers are confused when it comes to gas conversions...

WOW, thats a lot of heat m thats like 275 gallons a month which is rite under 40 million btus a month.... Unless your house is 11K sq ft, you need insulation, not a new boiler, lol...

$4000?

@ March 27, 2013 8:23 AM in Customers are confused when it comes to gas conversions...

We are talking about different systems here, $4000 heating bill is not a small load thats over 1000 gallons a year... You must be in a much colder climate than me...

If natural gas prices stay low like this {which they can NOT} and a house uses the $4000, thats about 1100 gallons that is about 153,000,000 btus . that many btus in ng will cost you about $2500 thats a savings of $1500 per year, so yes a burner conversion will make sense, the problem is its not going to stay this low, and I am talking about houses that cost $1500 a year to heat not $4000 {my house is over 4000 sq feet with some ceilings that are over 24' and if I heat it with the oil system it only costs me $3200 a season!!!}... So obviously we are not talking about the same sized properties... I am in CT so its cold here, and I have a lot of rental properties some of which I pay the heat, a small cape can be heated for $1500 a year and at that price its hard to pay for a gas conversion, and even harder to make up for throwing away a 2 year old boiler...

I hate to see this get so far from my original point, I am talking about small heat loads, with newer functioning boilers being tossed out in place of high eff. equipment..... Not houses costing $4000 per year and gas burner conversions....
And forgive me if my math is wrong, its about as good as my spelling and typing...

it works..

@ March 27, 2013 8:02 AM in Too many options - need help

I am installing 2 small gas boilers, with a multi boiler control, and ODR. I have done this install many times with as many as 3 small boilers for residentials.. You have the storage of the boilers to work off, and 2 boilers is still cheaper than installing a solo 175....

I did a system in the beginning of january- 2 small gas fired boilers with an indirect, and that house also had a lot of zones {the customer complained about short cycleing of his older system}, I believe it was 16 zones after the basement and garage were factored in, I know a lot of contractors that installed systems like this {me included}, when someone builds a big house and wants a nice system the first thing you would mention was zoning, how about a t-stat in every room, so when your not using them you can shut them down, ect, ect, ect... The problem with this is, that room that is set down to 60 calls for 25 seconds at a time... Well an ODR helps that a lot... But storage is what makes the difference, with a mod con you dont have much storage so you get very short cycles and the boiler will run every time that stat calls...{I know, add a storage/buffer tank and circulate heat through it rite?, no, you are adding a tank that is going to last 7 years to the heating system for no reason but to make the wrong boiler work better}

But anyway, I had 11 very small zones and a few good sized zones, and with the twins and multi boiler control with ODR, the boilers dont short cycle...

When the zone calls it circulates the stored water for a few minutes, it kicks boiler 1 on and then if boiler 1 is still running after 10 minutes{or how ever long you set it} it kicks boiler 2 on and runs until the zone is satisfied... If not setup properly, you will get short times on boiler 2, but if you set them correctly with the ODR, you will not have any issues... The best part is the boilers are going to last a LONG time, plus you are never with out heat, if one boiler goes down, the second is there for backup....

...

@ March 27, 2013 7:08 AM in Customers are confused when it comes to gas conversions...

Tony, Ill play I say we are twice the cost we are at now by january 2015....

and J, I also do a lot of conversions, BUT, you show me the math..

a small cape with a 35K BTU heat loss, and a 3 section oil fired boiler with a tankless will pay back {$2500 for the gas conversion} in 2 years, lol.

And I wasnt talking about burner conversions, Im talking about throwing a 2 year old boiler away to install a new gas boiler, you have to factor in the wasted cost of the old boiler....

burner conversions can make sense, but I haven't done many that will bring back the cost in 2 years???? Plus my price of 2500, isn't including bringing it in, thats for a house that already has a meter.... now if you have to bring it in you can add another 800 easily...

J, not everybody

@ March 27, 2013 6:56 AM in Too many options - need help

but when the heat loss doesn't warrant the added expense its not responsible to mislead a customer into thinking it is a good investment...

Think of it this way, you drive 5 miles a day and the hybrid engine lasts 10 years before it rots out, is it worth spending an extra $15k on a hybrid that gates 40mpg vs a normal car that lasts twice as long and gets 10% less mpg , No... because you will never save the cost difference, now if you drive 150 miles per day its worth it...

Same thing with high eff. boilers, they don't last as long, they initially cost more, and you only save 10% {if its condensing all the time which will not be the case} over a cast iron boiler {Im comparing apples to apples, a direct vented, ODR, cast iron vs a mod con with the same controls}...

Plus add to this mod cons are not made to cater to the smaller homes yet, they just don't make sense for properties with small loads... I also don't like them for houses with a lot of small zones, I am in the middle of a job installing 2 CGs boiilers for a 5100sq ft house, that has a zone for every room {12 zones}, he was interested in a mod.con but when I was the only contractor to do a heat loss and explain how a dozen tiny zones was going to short cycle a mod con, he had no problem giving me the job... The big seller for him was the longevity math though, if you do the math, these mod cons have to last a long time to make you a profit, and if they are not going to make you a profit, why bother...

Lets not forget

@ March 26, 2013 8:51 PM in Customers are confused when it comes to gas conversions...

Natural gas is going to double to triple in the near future.... Fracking is going to get outlawed state by state {vermonts done, ny, pa, oh, ect coming on fast...} Natural gas is very inexpensive rite now because it is plentiful due to the lack of regulations, BUT that is going to change very soon, and with the amount of buildings now powered by it, it will soon be scarce and this will drive up the price....

We are at the bottom of the roller coater rite now, and there is only one way to go when you are at the bottom... Expect to see NG rates rise through 2014,2015 maybe to the tune of 200 percent... And you are not going to be able to shop around for prices... there is only one gas company in each area...

Kind of makes you think if the current incentives are driven by the knowledge that the Nat Gas service is going to skyrocket....

One more note, I am in no way against natural gas, but I do not believe in throwing away a brand new system and spending $12K on a mod can that may need to be replaced twice in the lifetime that the existing cast iron boiler had left.... You can expect 15-20 years out of a good mod con, you can almost set your watch to 30+ years out of a good cast iron boiler.... They are the facts, I dont think you can show me a boiler that saves you $24K on a house with a 38K BTU heatloss...

I own a two family house{2 small one bedroom studios}, the heat loss is under 40K, I have a cast iron boiler with a tankless, the oil costs me $1600 per year{almost like clockwork}, for me to save the price of a mod con you would have to cut down my bill to $550 a year {with NO service issues for 15 years, lol}!!!! Thats not going to happen....

Now larger houses in the 150K BTU range could benefit, and if the boiler needs to be changed it starts to make sense..... But the truth of the matter is changing the aquastat for an ODR model, maybe installing some delta t circs and programmable t-stats is a good way to get them some savings, with a good tune up and maybe an outdoor intake kit... you can sell them $800 of parts and labor that will pay for itself in a handfull of years vs NEVER,...

OK

@ March 26, 2013 5:30 PM in Too many options - need help

Well I would start asking contractors to do a heat loss...

I install Weil mcLain CGs, CGi, CGt when the loads are under 70K or so, and when they are above that Buderus kicks in... And also for the higher btu loads Mod/Cons are also an option... But for DHW, no matter what boiler I install I like to see an on demand tankless...

I agree...

@ March 26, 2013 5:16 PM in Customers are confused when it comes to gas conversions...

When it comes down to it, I do what the customer pays for, I have installed brands I don't like and even ripped out a beautiful radiant panel system {the first Buderus panels, I kept them and used them in my office building} and replaced them with duct work {NO AC!!!} against my recommendations...

Customers are confused when it comes to gas conversions...

@ March 26, 2013 12:01 PM in Customers are confused when it comes to gas conversions...

I went to a sales call first thing this morning. The customer has a 3 year old oil fired boiler with baseboard heat, nice boiler and installed level, flush, and clean {rarity around here sometimes}. They are not having any issues with the boiler, I guess their heatloss is probably around 70K and the boiler is 100K in, so they are sized good. Its a Slant fin cast iron oil fired boiler with a tankless and I have no reason to believe it wont last another 20 years {easily}. But they just bought the house and are worried about the oil bills...

I tried to explain to them, a gas conversion is not going to save them any money after you factor in how long this boiler has left, and they still wan't a new boiler...

So I do their heatloss it comes in around 81K BTU's, I tell them the price for a rinnai condensing tankless and a TT solo 110.... They signed the proposal and gave me the deposit, and when I asked if they wanted to just move the oil boiler to the side incase they every wanted to switch back or sell it instead of paying me $350 to remove it, and they said NOPE please take it out of here...

I just don't get it, its a waste I'm actually waiting for the manager of my supply house to get back from lunch rite now so I can pick up the unit and deliver it today {manager gives me a better price that counter guys}....

I'm not trying to complain I appreciate the work, but I feel bad for these people that think throwing away a brand new boiler to switch fuels is a good idea...
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