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heatpro02920

heatpro02920

Joined on January 28, 2013

Last Post on August 7, 2014

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Bills got it rite

@ April 22, 2013 9:27 PM in Attic insulation

vapor barrier towards occupied space and if adding to existing insulation use non barrier materials...
For attics IMO the more insulation the better, I come home and the snow is off all my neighbors roofs, but mine is barely melted, that means me energy is staying in my house... When I built this house, I went VERY tight, walls are all 2x8 and 2x6, with as much insulation as humanly possible, the tightest doors and windows, we even have draft tight insulated receptacle boxes, but I have a heat recovery ventilation unit to take care of the "stale air" issues...

I thought I put that in my

@ April 22, 2013 5:13 PM in ok here is the answer early

answer Dave, 410a is not high ambient friendly.... If its super hot out, I spray them all down no matter what gas they use.. We don't see triple digits often, but changing coil conditions to affect pressures is day one stuff.... Its funny to watch the customers face while you hold there garbage can cover over their fan, it works both ways..

I would go with the

@ April 22, 2013 4:57 PM in which indirect tank? stainless vs glass/stone, coils vs tank?

Peerless, I install Triangle tube smart tanks, they are the same thing, work very well...

quite common

@ April 22, 2013 12:28 PM in Is my Meg Stor Leaking

To be sure, I would shut the cold water supply to the tank and recheck the pressure when the water is back up to temperature... If the boiler pressure fails to rise as it did before, chances are you have a faulty water heater...

Is the indirect still under warranty.

Is this a tight budget

@ April 21, 2013 1:52 PM in Pex expansion challenge

system?

If you can spare the cost of something like a TT60 vs the HE hot water tank, you will not be sorry... and that comes with odr.... I don't normally recommend a system like you are describing, I would go the little extra and do it rite.... I had a friend of mine I helped with his radiant, I talked him into using some less expensive ebay manifolds and spending a little more on the boiler, he originally picked out some expensive caleffi manifolds but we found some ebay models that worked good for A LOT less, like 90% lol.... that coupled with a few extra bucks got him a boiler...

Sounds like you have a winner

@ April 21, 2013 9:37 AM in Quietest oil boiler?

Veissman makes some of the nicest mod cons on the market, I believe the also hold the best warranty for their heat exchangers on the market... As far as noise, these new mod cons are almost silent, I have installed them in kitchens, bathrooms, laundry rooms, ect, they are aesthetically pleasing and the plumbing can easily be hidden...

Yes sir

@ April 21, 2013 9:36 AM in Running A Gas Line Underground

that would be how I do it, I have been getting more and more underground gas line installs, I have 4 waiting for the spring, 1 for a garage heater, 2 pool heaters and a guest house, thats not counting the half dozen or so Propane tank installs that will require buried lines....
Use the equipment I listed and you will have a trouble free install, also keep the sprinkler installation guys in mind for doing the trench work, they are fast and inexpensive...

The point is

@ April 21, 2013 7:16 AM in Quietest oil boiler?

you want what your contractor installs. If he installs buderus get buderus, or a v-man guy will install a vitodens, ect... but if you do want a specific model, go to that companies website and find a contractor...

Ill admit I have stepped outside

@ April 20, 2013 10:13 PM in Sandy still haunts my home!

my area before but NY is risky, lol.... Im sure someone has to be up there and doing things rite, time to hit the phone book until the problem is fixed, explain, I don't pay until the problem goes away... {but now we are getting into the warm seasons, this is going to be tough to remedy with no load...

I can't see why this is such a hard problem, let the boiler run to 180 then make sure just that zone is calling, if it doesnt see 170+ water at the first radiator within the time it takes to walk up there, you have too much head for that pump or the heat is being diverted, if there are no other valves and it is a straight shot, put a larger pump.... the heat has to go somewhere, even if its just staying in the pipe going up the wall, it will be somewhere, if it stops, that is because it is blocked or too much resistance for the pump...
Im curious to why no one has fixed this yet, I wish it was closer, I would run up there with an alpha and my thermal imager {get the boiler hot and zone cold, then plug the alpha into the wall recepticle and see where the heat goes if anywhere}, I'll bet real money I find the problem inside 20 minutes, whats wrong with these NY guys she is hiring, is it that bad up there rite now, I see a lot of posts on here looking for ny service, may have to open a new branch lol...

For master bath setups

@ April 20, 2013 9:58 PM in Replacing boiler question?

I always pipe the bathroom first with 20% more element than the bedroom{per area}, for example when I built my house, I have a hydro air that runs the master bed and bath, the bath has the same amount of duct terminations as the bedroom when the bedroom is 6 times the size of the bathroom, but there is so much stone in the bathroom and such a huge tub I guessed I would be about rite, and it works out, the bathroom is always a little warmer than the bedroom...

For the op as far as your system it sounds like you need to get a good company out there and get some ideas, I hate to gues with out actually seeing what there for my self and performing heat losses and looking at layouts, there is a lot to it...
I would go with a tt wall hung, and I would pipe it how I drew for you, but for your radiant zones, try to see if the contractor can do it with out using mixing valves. A separate control and plate exchanger could be an option with a 3 way valve letting you use return water...

buderus

@ April 20, 2013 9:50 PM in Quietest oil boiler?

GB142, I have installed sooo many of these, they are great units, I recently switched to TT solo boilers since people are asking for stainless steel, they seem to also be a very nice unit... go propane and don't look back..

Oh c'mon

@ April 20, 2013 9:36 PM in QUESTION FOR THE MONTH

no AC talk yet, its still 30 at night over here... 410a doesn't like high ambients, but recovering, then holding, then flushing the system, and changing the txv, compressor, ect , then nitrogen testing, then vacc-ing it down, then charging it, it takes a lot of time... I have done my share, none of them are fun, although we dont normally get 115* ambients around here... maybe 98* but not very often... I can count on one hand how many triple digit days we have had in my memory..

I agree Paul

@ April 20, 2013 10:43 AM in Replacing boiler question?

The days of a t-stat in every room are over, I like 1 zone per floor {or 1 zone for bedrooms and one for living space, some houses have special circumstances like guest rooms that are only used once a year, sun rooms, ect... My house has an 1100 sq ft guest suite with 2 bedrooms a parlor and full bath, obviously I zoned that off from the rest of the floor, no sense keeping it 70 year round when we use it for 2 months a year {mostly in the summer}.

So OP what is the real zone breakdown 1 for indirect , 1 radiant slab garage, 1 radiant slab living space, and 3 baseboard?

Thanks Chris

@ April 20, 2013 8:48 AM in Pros / Cons of Indirect Water Heater

What do you think about UPS systems, like the APC BR1500G ? I install them on Rinnai units once and a while, mine seems to last around a day if the power goes out, you still have hot water... May last longer it depends how much you use it... I have nothing on my solo 175 at my own home, but I can easily plug it onto the apc since its 20 inches away...

Since you are changing the boiler and repiping anyway

@ April 20, 2013 8:26 AM in Replacing boiler question?

I would go with bumble bees on the supply...

I would need to see how your radiant was piped, it must be getting cooler water than the bb and indirect...

OK, I did a similar install, the house was split between radiant and baseboard with an indirect... The first floor was radiant {retrofit} second was bb {couldnt retro because of ceilings}, they had 6 zones 3 radiant and 3 baseboard....

I piped it with 2 circulators {alphas} and 6 sentry zone valves. 1 circ did the radiant with 3 zone valves and the other did the 3 baseboard loops.
The wiring is where it gets different.... Instead of using a zvc-406 I used a zvc-403 on the low temp zones and a zvc-404 on the high temp zones, and I wired the end switches from each separately to the CH1 and CH2 circuits, I then connected the zvc-404s extra priority zone t-stat connection to the low temp zones endswitch and then onto the boilers ch2 circuit , so they don't call at the same time. So when a low temp zone calls the high temp relay is shut down on priority. So the result is the 2 panels can never call at the same time, because on the trimax control you can set up 2 separate curves allowing you to run one zone at 180 and one at 110 if you want.. BUT when they both call it will revert to 180 and overheat your radiant zones.. So wiring it this way stops that from happening... The downside is the 6 zones can never call at once... So I thought this may be a problem, but the house I installed it in had a heat loss of 67K and the 110 was a little over that... I thought they may have a problem with their second floor not getting heat because the first floor running constantly, in which I had a few ideas to fix it, but they never had an issue, the system warms the entire house, they actually said they noticed no temp differences... I told them {I know them pretty well, they go to our church} that it was experimental and if it caused a problem I would take care of it... But they like it, their programmable t-stats are set to actually turn down the first floor zones at night and turn the upstairs up... I had another trick up my sleeve if it did let the upstairs zones get too cold, I was going to make it so if the second zone called while the low temp was running it opened the zone valves and ran the circ but didnt close the end switch until the radiant was satisfied, so the base board would have at least gotten the low temp water... But heat rises, the house was well insulated and it worked out well, we had a cold winter with no complaints, I expected them to say it dropped a couple degrees here and there, but they said it never did...

And as for the drawing above, it woul change because you have an indirect and low temp radiant... the indirect will be piped off of the primary loop and the 110 has a separate tapping for the indirects supply... you will also need a check valve in there...

What is your actual zone count radiant and baseboard? and I am curious to how you are getting the cooler water to your radiant?

Im thinking with

@ April 19, 2013 9:55 PM in Replacing boiler question?

that many zones unless the houses is HUGE, they must be smaller, so I would think P/S piping over direct?

Chris

@ April 19, 2013 9:50 PM in Pros / Cons of Indirect Water Heater

which one do you use? power conditioner.... I use surgex sa15, but they cost me around $200 and they are nothing fancy... Triangle tube rep told me they have one built in, so I havent been pushing them, but still offer it...

First time

@ April 19, 2013 9:40 PM in Radiator Hot, Thermostat Off WHY?? Triangle Tube Prestige Excellence

did a licensed pro install this, if so its disgusting, first off piped by that window like that contractor should be ashamed... Never mind the everything else.. I have done some excellence boilers, they are the trimax but they look very similar.. I come off with dielectric unions, a vac breaker, mixing valve, I install a thermal x tank, back flow, heat trap both sides and make sure everything is supported and has iso valves... That install is just bare bones and not up to code...

That rusty mess should be redone, it would be worth it for you to get a pro in there that will do it rite, its an absolute shame that you boiler is less than 3 years old and looks like that... It probably wont be cheap, but have someone come in and fix it, if it were me I would take it all apart, clean the top of the boiler, repaint it white, t-tape and dope everything up, 90* that pex at the ceiling and bring all the dhw components {thermal tank, mixing valve, vac brker, ect} down the other side of the unit and then back up to the ceiling...

As far as the zones getting hot, I would have to say the internal valve is sticking, crudded up, or just faulty... Is there a 3 speed circ in the unit? what is it set at?

ENDOT

@ April 19, 2013 9:18 PM in Running A Gas Line Underground

I use all their stuff when burying gas pipe for lp or Natural gas, they have a little double sided chamfer tool they sell with the stuff the preps the yellow plastic pipe... You can buy it pretty much anywhere they sell plumbing supplies..

The best way to do it is use a riser at the house and a riser at the appliance or tanks what ever you are doing... You will need 2 risers{I buy 1" or 3/4" they are 30" vertical rise and 15" horizontal}, the roll of tubing {just run the tool over the ends on both sides one does the inside one does the outside edge, then stick the tubing in like a shark bite}, a tracer wire and I use this stuff its really cheap to buy http://www.labelmaster.com/store/scripts/view-product.cfm?product=H-DWT2Y
heres a link to what the riser looks like http://www.sustainablesupply.com/Endot-1253-91-4604-00-Anodeless-Riser-1-2-In-CTS-p/w180459.htm?gclid=CPKD_cWH2LYCFc5cMgodD2QAtA&CAWELAID=1307361833&cagpspn=pla

Make sure you follow the local codes, as far as distances, practices, and materials... I just did this at my fathers house for his pool heater, I normally sub the buried gas line jobs out to the sprinkler installation guys, they are so fast and efficient at digging pipe, plus they get soooo much less per hour than any machine operator you will ever find, I just do the connections, they do all the real work... :) They made me an 85ft trench 26"'s deep, laid out a few inches of soft sand, laid the pipe in, more sandy stuff, the tracer/tape and covered it up in 2 1/2 hours!!!! under 300 for labor !!!!

Holy Upside down pictures Batman...

@ April 19, 2013 4:19 PM in Replacing boiler question?

So you have 6 or 7 zones? How many sq feet is this home? What is the BTU loss on the smallest zone?

I would swap them circs for something with delta t {Bees if they are in spec with your needs}, and use an 15-55 as you primary pump {I am having great results with them on the TT's, my new go to tt pump setup is Alpha primary {110 has a 3 speed inside it you need rotated flange, I would just put a nipple and set of flanges and put the pump outside the cabinet}and BB secondaries, worx goo'ud, but I have only installed a pair of 60's a few 110s and a couple 175 {one in my home} no 250s or 399s as of yet}......
Now as far as piping goes, just have the installer follow the manual and you should be in good shape {as long as there are no misprints, lol} I would put the pumps on the supply personally. Since you are going with a strainer maybe just jump into a http://www.spirotherm.com/quad/ and not worry about sizing, buy a 1 1/4 spiro therm and pipe it all 1 1/4.... Im starting to warm up to these....

What are these zones going to? Radiant, heat coils, baseboard????

I would have who ever pipes the system redo that, so all the pumps are on the supply, and get rid of that 3/4" return/supply bridge....

If you let us know what they are going to we can let you know the best way to do it, maybe someone may even draw you a picture...


Of course you will need some drains, I use dielectric unions, and isolation flanges on the circs, as well as make sure all other components are isolatable, if you are using an indirect the 110 has a separate port for its supply and then you will need check valves, plus checks in each zone if you are not using the internal or existing units...

Man this is terrible stuff

@ April 19, 2013 7:32 AM in Boston Tragedy Hits Closer To Home

Hope our contributions help...

Prices seem off'

@ April 19, 2013 7:24 AM in Radiant vs Forced Air

I wouldn't trust anyone changing a boiler for $2000, they are most likely going to take your deposit and never be seen again... Even if thats after rebates and incentives, I couldn't install a used boiler that I took out for free for that amount of money....

Anyway, As far as Radiant vs FWA.. Do you have in floor radiant or radiant panels, baseboard, radiators??? If you are comparing a properly installed in floor radiant system to a furnace fired forced warm air system, the in floor radiant is going to win in Comfort and efficiency every time...

Even if you want A/C, unless your radiant is in some way failing {old metal pipe system that is starting to leak, or not properly installed in some way} then I would just install a/c separately {maybe use a unit with a hydro coil for aux.} and get a new boiler;;;

I prefer a boiler with hydro air unit vs a straight forced warm air furnace... Installing duct work in an existing houses is an invasive procedure, and gets costly fast, I wouldnt do it unless you were looking for central AC, in that case its better than window units or mini splits....
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