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heatpro02920

heatpro02920

Joined on January 28, 2013

Last Post on April 23, 2014

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heres an idea

@ April 16, 2014 10:22 PM in How To Make Current System More Efficient

This is a similar system I did, but for what you want to do I would probably do it a little different...

Efficiency...

@ April 16, 2014 9:47 PM in How To Make Current System More Efficient

If it were me I would not add a tank to your system, does your burnham have a tankless coil?

I would personally pipe it so your burnham is used as the buffer tank, I would use its tankless for DHW {if it doesnt have one add it}, I would pipe the system primary secondary and I would not use zone valves, I would install a bumble bee set for delta t on each zone {rebates are available in some places}....

I did a system this way {with a coal boiler, much better than pellets if this is an option}, I will try to find the drawing in a minute...

I use tanks in my systems as a last resort, a modern water tank is just about guaranteed to cause you grief at some point in time, so to add one just to use as a buffer, no thanks, I would find a better way to do it...

are we talking steam or fhw

@ April 16, 2014 9:30 PM in Should a backflow prevention device be installed to prevent water from the boiler from flowing into the cold water supply?

If I use an auto feed I put a check valve after the feeder, if it is a manual ball valve feed I don't install anything between or before..

TI cams

@ April 16, 2014 9:21 PM in Thermal Imaging

They are a great tool, I have decent cams so I can see a infiltration problems pretty well with out hooking up my door kit, when there is a good difference in ambient temps in vs out... My door was a couple thousand dollars, if you aren't getting crazy about energy audits spend the money on a better camera, you can get your positive/negative pressure from a simple Red Jetster, they are around $150, and you can get really fancy with a dual manometer if you like...

As far as the camera goes they have many more uses than just the infiltration diagnosis, they can aid in diagnosing electric issues, hydronic issues, and They can show you if the dog has been on the couch, very handy, I never seen my dog on the couch but there would be fur in one spot, so one day I came home and had one of my cams in my hand, he like always greeted me at the door, I went and checked the couch with the cam and there was his bright white body imprint...

But seriously they can show you burner motors that are going bad, clogged boiler sections, the issues you can diagnose with forced warm air are endless, clogged steam pipes and radiators, broken in floor radiant, they are very handy in the hvac field....

I would check start by

@ April 16, 2014 11:40 AM in losing heat

checking the temp at the close faucet, you can shut the washers feeds off to see if it helps. As far as soot goes it would be in the unit itself, rare with gas fired appliances {even more rare with natural gas vs lp}, but I have seen it, most of the time it is caused by insufficient combustion air, still kind of rare in a water heater.

Have you flushed the bottom of the tank lately?

Techman

@ April 15, 2014 6:00 PM in split system residential unit running fine - need for annual checkup??

I am confused, lol... I don't know if you are coming or going...

I wont check pressures for no reason, now if temps are not rite or the compressor has an issue {load or pulling big amps} I will check the pressures {we are talking about an existing system already in commision}...

I know guys that throw the gauges on every time they pull up, I see their point, why not check it out if they are there, so if they are there for a bad cap, they will check the pressures, I don't do this...

Heat pump as primary?

@ April 15, 2014 5:53 PM in Need advice/ help for new heating system

I don't think mini splits are a great "primary" heating system. Heat pumps can be reliable and work well in very cold temps, BUT I have never installed a heat pump only system, I use them as aux and supplemental heaters. Now as far as invasion goes, I agree with the pros above, get your hydronic system repaired and maybe throw in a new boiler of some sort, then install some mini splits for supplemental heat. This can be a nice system, use your heatpumps for heat down to 38 degrees or so then use your hydronic system for temps below that where the heat pumps start to use more energy than a fuel fired system..

Now as far as an all in one system for heat and cool, I am sorry to say unless you go radiant heat/cool {which is very invasive} you are not going to find an answer... High pressure and mini splits are options but the best way to go is going to be a ducted furnace with a/c coil and condenser {heat pump or not}... Mildly invasive depending on your house, but cost effective since with a/c you will need duct work anyway..

I have installed mini splits and unico systems {many of them} and everytime I think to myself, not in my house, first with mini splits it just reminds me of something I see in a dentist office, they are glorified window units to me, and unico systems are loud, ugly, expensive, and dont work extremely well, I used to install a bunch of them, now they have slowed down a lot, people dont ask about them as often as they used to and I have ripped a few bad installs out, you really need a good pro to get it rite...

So look into getting your hydronic system back on track, the cost may not be as prohibitive as you except, I know mini splits look like the saving grace of HVAC but they are not the answer to the entire question, sure they have their place but that is next to a primary heating system not in place of it..

Sure its worth something...

@ April 15, 2014 1:29 PM in split system residential unit running fine - need for annual checkup??

You can check the temps across the coils, that will tell you a lot about how its working.. I have customers that will have us come out and check the pressures, change the filter, check the float switches, check the t-stats, clean the coils, check the drains, ect. But I don't do that at my own house and I can do it for free, I clean the coils and change the filters when they are dirty, and fix it when it breaks...

Tank is under 2 years old

@ April 15, 2014 11:12 AM in losing heat

Do you have a washing machine, I have seen faulty washer mixing valves dilute hot water, verify that the water leaving your tank is almost the same temp as what comes of of the nearest faucet...

it can be any of a few problems, 1 is the thermostat on the tank/ gas valve 2 could be gas pressure 3 could be soot build up inhibiting transfer 4 dilution {cold water somehow making its way into DHW lines}...

If you adjust the tanks tem and the burner kicks on, check the temp and record it, then next time it gets cold you turn it up again and check the temp, if you have to keep turning it up to get the same temps and your incoming water isnt getting colder {that is very unlikely} than there is an issue..

Thanks Dan

@ April 15, 2014 10:54 AM in Spoke with Deb at Heating Help today

I found something to keep me busy, my father in laws pool heater has been giving them issues so I took a look at that and replaced the HSI, they wanted to switch to a hybrid water heater so I am doing that today, and their neighbor also wants one so if Re Mikes has another one in stock I may throw theirs in too...
Plus the reason we are down here is to empty a relative that passed aways house and help with arrangements, so that has been keeping my wife and kids busy too.. Hopefully I can start heading back by Friday, since I have a ton work stacking up at home...

Depends on...

@ April 15, 2014 10:41 AM in split system residential unit running fine - need for annual checkup??

What your piece of mind is worth and if that is equal or less to what your service provider charges for a "check up"...

I have a customer that I installed a Buderus G115 boiler for with a new roth tank and all the fixings, tiger loop with garber filter, pri/secondary, ODR, ect ect ect, a very nice install he spared little expense...

So I call him the following year to schedule his first service {I do the first service for free with an install}, and he said he wanted to wait for his first service and would call me when he was ready. So I thought nothing of it, I didnt hear from him for another 3 years!!! He called me one spring and said, come by when you get a chance to service the unit...

So I go there and clean and service the boiler, it was relatively clean, and running when i got there... So he presents me with the coupon for his first annual service and I was expecting it, so I gave him a receipt with no charges added...
We spoke for a while, he is a very nice gentleman, and he said the next time he is going to try and wait 5 years between servicing his unit, I told him he should get it every year and he said he knew that, but if saving a couple hundred bucks a year meant that he may go a weekend without heat someday then so be it...
If you can live like that, then take the gamble, it is one of them things that "makes as much sense as it doesn't"....

So we are in Florida

@ April 14, 2014 11:37 PM in Spoke with Deb at Heating Help today

not really a vacation, kind of the opposite, but I read pumping away and primary secondary today...
I put about an hour into the lost art of steam, and I think that is going to be my favorite to date, it has a different "mood" than the others, I feel like Dans telling me a story while unloading a ton of info in all his books, but in Lost Art, I feel like we are having a conversation, very well done...

One funny note- I am reading the book and he explains a problem a friend of his ran into with a steam pipe that the installer unintentionally installed a new boiler with a lower water level and ran into a huge issue, well about 15 years ago I did the same exact thing, I was working at Fleet at the time and replaced a steam boiler for a customer, the first time I heard it BANG, was upstairs taking the check from the customer as the other 2 guys were cleaning up, I thought the boiler was coming through the floor and we were all going to die... I figured it out after a little investigated and ended up repiping and lifting the boiler, almost 2 days worth of extra labor...

Anyway, I can not wait to get back home, but the books are helping while I am here...

need a little more info than that

@ April 14, 2014 10:59 PM in losing heat

what kind of tank? Direct fired gas, oil, electric, indirect with an oil boiler, indirect with a mod con, gas tankless, ect?????

Did you varify this with a thermometer of some sort, or are you just going by feeling? Most of the calls like this are related to mixing valves and or cold water dilution... I can't count the times I went to a customers house and the problem was their shower valve...

Expansion tank

@ April 14, 2014 12:47 PM in Boiler pressure rising

If your tank has a valve on it, you can unscrew it and see if its is full of water, if its heavy its bad, I have used many methods of checking them, tapping, wobbling, checking the psi tap, trying to feel if they are heavy, all ways which have tricked me at one time or another over the years... Best way is to take her down and check it... They are generally easy to tell if they are bad if they are bad {I know that doenst make a lot of sense} but if they are bad then I can walk up to them and say yah its bad, but if they are good, I will double guess myself and just take it down to check and then put it back up if its good...

As far as your over psi issue goes... Its one of the things in our industry that everyone attacks differently...

I first check for positive shut off {even though you are saying it happens when it gets hot}, make sure the feed valve and pressure reducing valves are in working order.

Next I check the tankless or indirect hot water tank {some people call it a boiler mate, boiler buddy, ect, its a tank that heats DHW with your boilers hot water}. If your boiler also makes DHW {domestic hot water for your faucets and taps} then there is a coil or tank somewhere that on one side of it is full of high pressure domestic/potable water, if this leaks it will leak into your boilers water supply and raise the pressure...

Next if that all checks out is the expansion, when you heat this water it has to go somewhere, so we have expansion tanks, either a steel tank cylinder or an expansion tank with internal air bladder. The steel tanks need to be correctly installed and have the correct amount of air in them to work properly, the bladder style will have a shrader valve on the bottom that will let you pressurise the bladder.. Some guys do this differently but I put the exact same psi in the bladder as I run the boiler, so if my pressure reducing valve is set at 15 psi I make sure the tank has 15psi in it... Also these tanks need to be properly sized, too small is almost as good as not having it there and too big, well I don't know what that would do but I would rather have too big since the only down side I can think of is cost...

So if the expansion tank is properly sized, has the proper pressure in its undamaged baffle, and is properly installed you can move on to the next issue...

Pumping, you could have an issue with your pump size and location, I know its rare but I have seen people try to fix heating issues with LARGE pumps, these pumps can raise your pressure and or suck extra water into your boiler through your feed valve.....

So after all of that is checked,
your feed valve is working properly and positively shut off at your desired temp
your boiler is heating to a stable temp {180* not 255}
your boiler is not getting "street" pressure, there is no way for water above 15 psi to enter
your expansion tank is sized, installed, and pressurised correctly in working order
your pumps are sized, installed, and working correctly

if you can still watch your psi raise to and over 30 psi opening your relief valve, then you found a problem that I have never seen before...

I have had techs call me from other companies {and my own} and say " I don't get it, I installed a brand new ball valve on the feed and shut it, I installed a brand new ex60 expansion tank and set the psi perfectly, I shut the tankless rite off with brand new ball valves, and its still pops the prv off"??? I take a ride over and look at the piping, there is the culprit a check valve in the header and one bwrds built into the circulator locking out the expansion tank...

Smart to wait for the rite weather

@ April 14, 2014 12:20 PM in Need help heating/pumping Six Oil

Don't rule out the power of the sun, the tubing idea and small pump would no doubt heat that tank, I have seen solar pool heater array that could boil the water in the jacuzzi, it got so hot the tubing flattened out and stopped the flow, sunny 85 degree new england day, tried to pick up the tubing with a stick and it was just stretching around the stick... They had to cool it with garden hoses...

Can you post a drawing of how you wired it?

@ April 14, 2014 11:54 AM in Two Circs - TT Prestige Excellence

I am not near my desk where my manuals are but if I am thinking about this correctly...

buy this http://www.rakuten.com/prod/taco-sr5024-zoning-control-2-zone/262841037.html?listingId=337898830&scid=pla_google_Zoro&adid=18179&gclid=CKDix82q4L0CFWxp7AodUQgA3A to multi zone your excellence...

wire constant/service 120 to the taco control white and black
wire your 2 heat zone stats to the tstat terminals in your taco control, then your pumps to the pump terminals in your taco control...
wire the end switch {TT} terminals to your "ch1 tstat" terminals in your boiler

Done... Leave everything else alone, all the factory wiring for your excellence is done for you...

Another option is to use zone valves, 2 zone valves and a single pump will work with the excellence, but it will be easier and cheaper for you to just buy a taco sr5024 and it will work better {I LIKE pumps for zoning}....


so just to confirm, the only wires you introduce to your excellence are-
18-2 for ODR sensor
14-2 for supply voltage
18-2 for end switch from sr5024

THATS IT, rip everything else that the factory didnt put there out... I have installed almost 2 dozen of these bad larrys, you bought the rite boiler.... Now just go grab the rite zone controller {I would buy a 3 or 4 zone incase you ever want to add a zone, but the 2 will do what you want}...

Good luck and enjoy...

I use....

@ April 13, 2014 9:21 PM in AC cleaning condensor coils - inner side seems dirty

the foaming cleaner with my goodway coil pro machine {mine is the cc600, they have a bunch of them now, even battery powered}... flip the service disc., pull the top and the fan out, soak the coil and straighten any bent fins, apply the foamer, rinse with the coil pro restraighten any bent fins, install fan assembly, and reapply power, done...

swei thats because we are fitters, lol

@ April 12, 2014 8:35 PM in Need help heating/pumping Six Oil

hydronics is my go to remedy for almost any problem...

But imagine the mess it will be cleaning all that tubing............... I wonder what the best way to figure out how much tubing and temp you would need to raise that kind of mass 2 degrees an hour, I was thinking with the sun heating up some tubing and a simple pump moving the fluid it would be almost free and just time consuming and messy... just get a couple thousand foot coils of radiant tubing, and a little pony pump to circulate it, let the sun do its job on a hot day with no clouds that water will get so hot the pex will fall into the oil and it will be boiling in no time.. there is no boiler stronger than the sun..

I spoke with the gentleman at the school

@ April 12, 2014 8:22 PM in Are you in the market for a Thermal Imager?

who taught the class I took years ago when I bought my first Flirs, we still keep in touch, he knew of the hack situation and I asked if it was illegal, and he said no, that is why they are allowed to sell hacked models on ebay, if it were illegal ebay would kick them instantly.. He compared it to a hacked playstation that can play the new and used games, no cr infringement, just changing a product you bought and paid for to better fit your needs...

So while it is not illegal, it is like I said a gray area, kind of like dubbing music for your friends, not selling it, but stopping them from needed to buy it, not illegal but morally questionable...

This is not a new hack they have been doing it for months now, the rep from VT said they would have never sold so many if it were not for the hack, he seemed to think it was planned by Flir to increase sales, people that would have never even bought the e4 bought it because they got such a good deal, and the price difference from the e6 to the e8 kind of enforces that, $2500 and then the next model up is $6000, Flir marketing may just be genius, if it is true, because they sold a lot more units than they would have if it wasnt hacked... He said they ramped up production to keep up with the instant demand!!!!

So all that aside, I just wanted to let everyone know if they were on the fence about a ti or need a new one, that is a great deal for a unit with that kind of image...

I have a ddsm1

@ April 12, 2014 5:29 PM in draft simulator

I never use it {maybe once a year}, I just run the unit with the manometer hooked up, if I see it locks out and had enough pressure to close the switch and all the lines are clear then I will change the switch... I good manometer and multi meter are much more important than any fancy pump will ever be.. but we do love tools..

I dont know of anything like that

@ April 12, 2014 4:44 PM in Need help heating/pumping Six Oil

Like I said I would wait for a hot day {after a week of hot days}, and put a couple million btus of propane heaters under and around the tank, watch the temps... you can get trash can heaters that are around 200k btus each for $100 or so, 10 of them should be more than enough to get you up to 110 degrees on a 90 degree day...
We have done it, one thing to watch is the temp, we learned the hard way that as the oil pumped out it continued to heat up even after the units were shut off, we had the tank very close to the flash point, but no tragedies happened so all was well...

May be best to call a pro and have it dealt with, Im sure DEM would have a field day if there were no hazmat pros in the yard while this was taking place...


Im not sure what your budget is, what the tank looks like or anything like that but what you are looking for is an Immersion heater, they are normally electric Omega, chomolox, indeeco, and a hundred other companies make and sell them, but they are not cheap, for 1 time use I would be looking into other ways to get it done...
Like I said I am not sure what you have at your disposal, we just know the end game, you have a monster tank, with A LOT of the worst oil in the world to deal with inside it. If someone approached me with this task, they would most likely pass out at the price tag it commanded...

But for getting it done there are a ton of options, you can heat the outside of the tank, you can get electric submersibles, you can drown tubing and run hot water through it.. I think the cheapest way to do it would be to wait for a hot day {let the sun do the bulk of the work} and drown a bunch of hose tubing in the tank put a pump in that tubing {outside the tank} and a bunch of the tubing outside on the ground in the sun, let the sun heat it and circulate through the tubing and back though the tank and back through the solar tubing, its gonna take a while....

LOL, let me know if that works, I am curious..

Are you in the market for a Thermal Imager? $5000 off msrp

@ April 12, 2014 3:42 PM in Are you in the market for a Thermal Imager?

For those that are interested please be aware that it is in an ethical gray area, you can get a $6000 Flir E8 320x240 camera for $900...

Ill give a little background, the flir e series offers a base model E4 and their flagship {for that series} the E8. They look identical except for the badges that say 4 or 8. Every single other internal and external part is identically the same between the $900 and $6000 unit, except the programming, the e4 has programming to "cripple" it to 80x60 which if you know TI equipment, is meager at best, it wont show much and very little quality, BUT 320x240 is amazing, and will show everything, it is an astounding difference... Flir saved money by making the same camera for the entire series and programmed each model except the e8 to be less than what they actually are..

Think of it as if chevrolet used the same engine in their Sonic and their Corvette except the Sonic comes with an ecm that only lets it output 140hp and the vette is full open at 500hp {just an example, dont go buy a sonic and think it will be a corvette with a firmware hack}...

So a friend of mine also in the hvac field owns a hacked e4, I seen it first hand today, the picture is better than my $8000 Camera {I bought it a while back}. This is very interesting and I figured I would share it, I am on the fence on if I am going to get one or not, I already have 3 others and they work well {none of them were $900 though, I wish}... I spoke with the rep I deal with at Value Testers {great place to buy everything from combustion analyzers to ti cams and any other hvac electronics} and he will sell the e4 for $895, thats $100 cheaper than any other place I have found.... You can buy them already hacked on ebay for $1500, but he said it takes 10 minutes to do... There are instructions on youtube available...

So if anyone is interested, let me know if you need any more info if I know the answer I will give it. Like I said its kind of an ethical gray area, but if that doesn't bother you it may be a good opportunity to get more than you pay for a change...

One more note, you need to keep a copy of the original firmware so that if you need to use the warranty you can revert to it so Flir will cover your unit for repair... I have had great luck with my Flir cams, the only thing I don't like about them is the price, but as for what they allow me to do and the time they save me, its well worth it...
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