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heatpro02920

heatpro02920

Joined on January 28, 2013

Last Post on June 25, 2014

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CI and mod con

@ April 23, 2014 8:45 PM in Best Value in Combination Hydronic / Domestic Boiler and radiators

ci is cast iron {standard boiler you would see in most homes} mod con is modulating condensing {like a wall hung boiler}.

I am going to guess you are under 40K BTU total heat load... so I would install a Weil mclain gold cgi25 and just a basic 40 gallon gas water heater, any brand, I have bad luck with them all, lol...

That tiny boiler will last a long time and wont use much more energy than any of the high tech units available...

I personally

@ April 23, 2014 8:35 PM in Apartment building zoning solution - Tekmar tn2?

would not go with zone valves, I would give each floor its own Bumble bee circ. set up for delta t, I would also just run a taco sr504 {or how ever zones you want}, let the boiler do what it is made to do as far as reset and DHW priority, just use the zone board and sensors for zoning, it will cost much less.

You need to figure out your current piping configuration and where to split it, probably much more important than how you control the zoning is the piping...
If its possible to make a fast drawing of how its currently piped that would be helpful..

No I havent heard of any

@ April 23, 2014 7:00 PM in Are you in the market for a Thermal Imager?

I have the i7's too...

Good question Steamhead

@ April 23, 2014 6:21 PM in Are you in the market for a Thermal Imager?

It does void the warranty, but he leaves your firmware on the unit, so you can easily erase the hacked version, he showed me how to do it, and after that is done there is no way to know it was ever hacked....

I was worried about the same thing, but then when I thought about it, mine have been awesome, I never heard about any issues, and being they are only 895 each vs what I paid for my others, I will be happy if it lasts 2 years, lol... Which they are very well made and should last for 10 years being used everyday...

I have done a single energy audit and charged more than this camera costs!!!! I am glad to see people taking advantage of it, I read on the internet a lot of people bought them that have no use for them, just as a hobby to see in the dark and look through peoples clothes yah, it kinda works :) lol, but in our field these can be very handy, this one is so sensitive I can see pretty small gas leaks {a friend of mine has the one made for gas leaks, not sure the model number but that one can detect a gas leak down to something like 9 oz's a year!!!] My other ones can find refrigerant leaks easily, I am going to test out the condensation leak finder tomorrow, that looks very cool...

Maybe I just like new toys.....


you compare other cameras with this type of resolution and the prices are crazy...

http://www.valuetesters.com/fluke-ti32-60hz-thermal-imager-for-industrial-and-commercial-applications-1.html
http://www.valuetesters.com/hvac/thermal-imaging-camera/testo-882-thermal-imager-camera-kit-0560-0882-70.html
http://www.valuetesters.com/hvac/thermal-imaging-camera/flir-e60bx-thermal-imaging-camera-msx-enabled.html

The cheapest is the ideal heatseaker which is crap, google it and you will see what I am talking about, its $5600 and its not ideal at all...

Seems expensive to me

@ April 23, 2014 6:12 PM in What's your opinion on this design...

Last one I bought was over 1000, just seemed like a lot for what you get in the box, the pump block and a few sensors.... For a couple hundred bucks more you can get a 52K BTU GWA-052 gas boiler and run it at 105 degrees just for the radiant, lol.... Don't worry about mixing at that point... Or even a simple rinnai tankless just for the radiant for that much money, at least then you get something for your thousand bucks.....

Granted they are nice and they work well, just seems like a lot of money for what you get, I love Taco and they are in my back yard, and I have met the owner John, he is a great guy, lol, but that RMB should be like $470 tops :)

Mine is firmware 1.21

@ April 23, 2014 5:30 PM in Are you in the market for a Thermal Imager?

and my friend just did one today that is 1.22 there is a video on youtube on how to hack the newer models, they encrypted them so someone made a file to un-encrypt it and its all there in the youtube vid...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXJYv_MxIHw
he also has a vid for the previous models..

He also has links to all of the sites you need in the links tab on that video... He did mine from his pc on my pc and it took 5 minutes, I know a few other guys online that did the 1.22's, but I think the 1.21's are still for sale at valuetesters.com ...

The new upgrade he did for me changed everything, now I have delta t readouts, red hot blue cold limits, condensation leak finding mode, and more, its great... Hopefully some HH members take advantage of it, I know a few ordered yesterday and a few more ordered today, so I am not sure how many more valuetesters have in the 1.21 and 1.22 configuration, but I have 1.21 and it works, and a friend did a 1.22 today {he bought it locally and did the hack himself from the video of instructions, I am not that pc literate although he said it was simple, and he is not much better than me}...

I used it today to find where a pool heater was leaking, I thought it was the weld but it was lower than the weld, a cracked switch housing...

Looks expensive..

@ April 23, 2014 9:59 AM in What's your opinion on this design...

Them taco blocks cost as much as a gas boiler, lol....

I would pipe it p/s with a alpha pump on the primary, then I would run a bumble bee for each zone. For the low temp radiant I would run a fphx with an aquastat run a bumble bee on each side of it. Use a SR504-exp control with a pc700 to control your primary pump, odr, and priority DHW and zoning....

The 5 bumble bees, alpha pump, exp control, and pc700 will cost around what the mixing block will cost, lol...
It will give you delta t operation for each load, delta P for your primary loop, ODR, priority dhw, and low high temp separation for your radiant..

We all do things different, I prefer not to use mixing valves and zone valves if I can get around it. FPHX have come a long way in reliability and cost, I like how they control radiant with a simple digital a419 aqaustat tired in and a pump on each side.. and you can save costs by teeing your water feed, expansion tank, PRV rig to take care of both sides of the fphx..

You can make it look really nice with some webstone swag..
http://www.supplyhouse.com/Webstone-58755-0-1-1-4-Sweat-Run-x-1-1-4-Hydro-Core-Right-Flange-Manifold
off the top of the hydro-core http://www.supplyhouse.com/Webstone-HCE4-53-1-Union-x-3-4-Sweat-Hydro-Core-End
off the top of the circhttp://www.supplyhouse.com/Webstone-50403-3-4-Sweat-Isolator-Flange-Pair-7787000-p

looks expensive but when you factor in the parts and time its only about double the cost of doing it with separate parts and the added labor, but it looks better, works better, saves time, and has a lot less leak points...


not sure what size hx you would need but they arent as expensive as they used to be http://www.supplyhouse.com/FlatPlate-FG5X12-6-6-plate-3-4-Thread-20-GPM-Heat-Exchanger-5-x-12 I use this same one on a walkway snow melt, its been there for 4 years no issues... I have done plenty of radiant jobs with fphx and they are worry free work machines...

FLush

@ April 23, 2014 9:22 AM in losing heat

just open the bottom valve until it flows clean water, some people will add cleaners and vinegar to the tank, then turn the dial way up to boil it and then rinse it with bleach to make a big deal out of cleaning the tank, but once a year it is good to just drain off the bottom until it runs clean, this keeps your valve working {hopefully} and keeps settling sediment from rotting out the bottom of your tank....

Sorry it was late, lol

@ April 23, 2014 8:49 AM in Rinnai TGWH info

I just noticed that it was Bob...

I'll send you an email with some of my pricing info...

As far as selling the product goes...

Call Rinnai and get their service books and anything they can send you, they have decent literature available, I have been installing them for around 10 years with hundreds of them out there and service issues have not been an issue, as they approach 15 years old I imagine I am going to be repairing and replacing them more often

If you install them with unions and a strap board {this is a peice of 1x1 that I now install at the base of the units, it makes it easier to remove and replace the unit as well as mount it initially if you are by yourself, simply mount it at the height you want, level it and then install the unit against it} you can replace the unit in 15 minutes!!!

Besides the strap board I install I have learned a few other tricks over the years, like for recircs use a small bosch es8 tank {I have posted pics and drawings of this on HH}.
Try to sell the customer the High Sierra shower heads {you can buy them direct and make a couple bucks on the but more important is they will almost double the energy savings and I have never gotten a complaint about them, I use them and they are great, they never clog, super power, and use little water},
Also when doing new construction recommend they install double handle faucets vs the mono handle units, this will cut down on the cycling, I wouldn't mention this as much with retro's since it can scare customers thinking they need all new faucets, which is not the case, just more convenient to have the double handles...
For venting, use the ubinks stuff, follow the venting instructions, and you will never have an issue, if you sway from their designs you will regret it...
Push the controls with the sale, I installed an RU98i in my own home {I was going to keep 2 of them, but for showing them to customers I wanted them to see my 4300 sq ft home with 4 full baths could be satisfied by a single unit}, it has the es8 for recirc with a grundfoss pump, a control in the laundry room, one in the master bath and one in the kitchen as well as the one on the unit, they do a lot of stuff, like intercom, lock, tub fill, ect..

As far as condensing vs non, I tell people the rl is just as nice may need less service {yet to be seen since neither have given me problems}, and with the ru you save maybe 10% a year, with a unit that only costs $120 a year to operate anyway thats $12 a year, so is it worth it? Kind of goes by what the customer wants to do...

Anyway if you need any more info give me a call, I have tried takagi, and a couple other brands and I can say for the price, customer support, and overall product quality Rinnai is the brand... Takagi is in the middle, Navian is at the bottom and Rinnai and Nortiz are towards the top...

Emails sent

@ April 23, 2014 6:24 AM in Are you in the market for a Thermal Imager?

We played with it for a while last night, works great. If I missed replying to anyone that emailed me, message me again and I will forward the info along, I sent 8 emails but I may have missed a couple because I was deleting them as I sent them... thanks...

So I set one of these up today

@ April 22, 2014 9:58 PM in Are you in the market for a Thermal Imager?

I figured for $900 I would give it a shot, I have to say I am very impressed. It came in a few days, I called the gentleman that could convert it for me, he did it over the computer in 5 minutes and it was done !!!!!!!!! The picture is better than my $6000+ IMAGER!!!!!! I am going to sell all of my other imagers on ebay this week and replace them with these.. I paypal'ed him $50 for his time, and I would never have gotten it done with out him, lol...

I will post some pics of it tomorrow, I should have taken before and afters but I didn't... I have to say, the images are incredible compared to my I7's and 60... Plus a ton of options in the menu, it actually has more menu features than the e8 originally had...

Anyway for those who emailed me about them, email me back if I missed you and didn't reply, I will give you the info..

No money talk, sorry

@ April 22, 2014 9:44 PM in Rinnai TGWH info

more important than the cost is the contractor, don't just go for the "cheap" guy, get the contractor that you are comfortable with. I install a lot of Rinnai units and they are very nice, reliable, make plenty of hot water for most houses, my house has 4 full bathrooms and we can run all of the showers with no issues.

I recommend the RL94 for most homes, easy install, reliable, very nice... For the people that like the best, the ru98 is nice too... Also I try to talk all my customers into installing High Sierra shower heads at the same time..

Where are you located, there may be a contractor on here that can help you out...

heres the drawing

@ April 22, 2014 10:54 AM in Electric VS Indirect

this shows an indirect but it will pipe identically to your mix and cold from your tankless, this will let you run the water through the tankless and into your hybrid for the summer and then through your hybrid and into your tankless in the winter, it will help with your cold winter water too, since you will have 50 gallons sitting in there all the time soaking up an ambient temp in your basement...

IMO the only thing that will save you money is either gas or a hybrid, a gas tankless can work well too... Its hard to justify the cost of a device once you factor in its lifespan, the hybrids seem to be coming with 10 year warranties, so figure on worse case you get the 10 out of it, if the unit costs you x amount to install and the only reason to install it is to save money you need to figure out of it will do that inside its lifespan... So if you are spending $150 of oil per summer, and the unit costs you $2000 and costs you $70 a summer to run, it saves you 80 per year so 80x10 years is $800, it would cost you $1200 and save you nothing, and it would have to last you 25 years to pay for itself {not going to happen}...
Now if you are doing it to save the earth, or the rebates make it much cheaper, then that is a different story......

Step one is to figure out what dhw costs you per summer, step 2 figure out what a hybrid would cost you per summer, step 3 get s price on the hybrid step 4 do the math...

You can also figure about 10% in for adding a little life to your boiler since it wont be working all year if you like and another 5% for being Green, maybe another 5% for the cold air in the summer... If you need to help it make sense..

Check with your electric provider

@ April 22, 2014 10:48 AM in Electric VS Indirect

to see if they have any rebates for hybrid water heater installs, here we are currently showing $750 {last yr was $1000}, so if they do have a rebate that can cover a lot of the initial costs, a Hybrid is great in the summer since their bi-product is cold dehumidified air.. Running them in the winter is OK too, but you will be cooling air that you paid to heat...

The install is simple, run 220 to the heater, a condensate {3/4 or 1/2 PVC} to a drain or to the outside, and the hot and cold lines... you can install it pretty easily in your existing water lines, I have a drawing around here on hot to pipe it so it can be configured before or after your tankless by shutting a series of valves, so in the winter it isnt sitting with stagnant water in it and it will work as a prestage for your tankless...

What is the reason for wanting to change?

@ April 22, 2014 10:39 AM in Electric VS Indirect

What is the reason behind changing how your dhw is made?

A decent coil can make plenty of water and work very well when installed correctly...

Are you not getting enough hot water? is it not hot enough? Fuel costs too high?

I have been installing the hybird water heaters for summer use, since the rebates are so high rite now... They are a great summer time option if you are just looking to not run your boiler in the non heating season...

I generally try to stay away from installing tanks when ever possible.... You may be able to get your tankless to meet your needs with very little work and effort...

What ice is talking about will work very well if your issue is not enough hot water and can be very cost effective..

Space is a commodity

@ April 22, 2014 8:21 AM in Tiger loop

I understand where a compressor would be handy, but my Nitrogen tanks can do almost everything the compressor can do, they all have adjustable regs that can adjust from 0 to way more than any soldered joint can take...

I think if you used your co2 cartridge you would be surprised how effective they can be, mine has a gauge and a valve on it, so I charge the unit, then snap the valve open...

We do take the a compressor with us if we are going to need one, if I am starting a large job with a lot of joints, a radiant job where they are doing floor work, any winterizing work, ect. But for pumping out tanks and systems I use the pony pump, and if its a boiler swap out there normally aren't any leaks, and when i charge the system I listen for the hissing, most of the time if there is a leak you hear the air in the system leaving and can shut it down and only have to drain a little back if any...
A compressor is definitely a nice tool, but I just dont have the room to lug one around all the time, I use single axle utility trucks so space has to be well thought out, On my old 2009 GMC I had a compressor mounted on the box, but it was a pita to get running when we did need it because we hardly ever used it and it sat out in the weather all the time..., and it still took up box room with all the hoses and battery....

Ill admit when I was doing a lot of new construction I used to keep one in the job box, but then over night the new construction shifted from base board to fwa and it was no longer needed...

Home depot

@ April 22, 2014 7:44 AM in Where to buy a furnace on Long Island

LOL..

I would go where ever your service tech friend has an account, what brands are you looking into? Is it oil, gas, natural draft, 90+? what is your heat loss, heat and a/c or heat only?

Then there is always the internet- but you still need to do a good heatloss calculation, and know exactly what you want and have to work with as far as dimensions, venting, and load... Furnaces can go from small cheap and basic like a single stage 80+ https://www.alpinehomeair.com/viewproduct.cfm?productID=453067314 to a modulating, variable speed, ecm motored, outdoor air sensing unit. Like the carrier Infinity 98, the lennox 98v, Armstrong 97mv, Trane xc95 mod, ect ect ect.... Bryant york and almost every other company now offer some type of 96+ variable modulating furnace https://www.theacoutlet.com/986TB66120V24-120000-Btu-96.7-Percent-Afue-Bryant-Gas-Furnace.htm but you really need to know what you are buying, easy to make the wrong choice...

Everyone does things their own way...

@ April 21, 2014 9:03 PM in Proper Wiring Help Needed

I see the lv and bx ran like that all the time, I don't do it myself because I do it the way I always did it, kind of stuck in my ways. I get on a job and it seems to go super fast when I do it the way I always did it...

And I as well as a lot of other guys will look at a different than our own practice and think its wrong or not as rite, but if its up to code, performs as intended, and the customer is happy with it, then its good...

I had people comment about how I wire in a zone valve control on a retrofit, since the wries are never long enough to reach the control I mount my control, then run 18-5 up to the zone valves, tie red and white into the t-stat wires and tire the blue, green, and yellow into 1, 2, and 3 on the zone valve... I strip the 18-5 back around 8 inches and put a couple screwdriver loops in the r,w and then the b,g,y it looks good when its done, IMO, its fast, convenient, and works well for me... Now a tech that works for me and a friend of mine in the field like to put a handy box in the ceiling and connect all the t-stat wires in there with new longer extensions that go to the control, then run 18-2 for that and 18-3 to each zone valve.... To me it takes too long, doesn't look as good, costs more in materials, and gets confusing when servicing...

I know a contractor that runs all his t-stats in one cable up to the ceiling {no box} then connects them all to a single cable and then runs 18-3 to each zone valve, so if he has 5 zones he runs 18-10 {10 different wires} for all the tstats and then wires each one, the wire he uses has double colors, so it for 18-10 it will be blue and then blue with a white stripe, then orange and orange with a white stripe, ect so each color is its own zone, then he puts a piece of that color electric tape on the zone that corresponds to it so the zone valve that he used for the orange wires gets some orange tape....

To me it all works, but I like my way...

I have a flow through pump tester

@ April 21, 2014 6:13 PM in Tiger loop

BUT, for a fast service call just to verify oil flow, my little clear hose is better than trying to point the jetline into a bucket, I never used a compressor to clear a blocked line, I have a couple co2 guns they work great, and I do ac so my nitrogen tank is never far away incase that wont work, lol....

I could not picture my customers face if I pulled a compressor out of my service body and started running extension cords and air hoses through the house, lol... Plus I am not a carpenter so I don't bring a compressor with me, I own a bunch of them, probably 3 or 4 small pancakes and twin tanks, I have a 15hp tri cyclinder for the duct cleaning, and an ingersoll rand 185 trailer mount diesel for the winterizing, I'm sure that one could blow 6 oil and cement sand through a 1/4" line, but I never used one for oil obstruction, if the pump cant push or pull it, the co2 always does... I also use the co2 gun for clogged condensate lines and to blow out dusty burner bodies....

How about

@ April 21, 2014 5:33 PM in Best Value in Combination Hydronic / Domestic Boiler and radiators

radiators with a small ci boiler instead of a mod con and then a direct fired water tank, that should be affordable...

I do this in my own home

@ April 21, 2014 7:02 AM in Replacing AC with heatpump?

I run the heatpump in the shoulder months as aux heat and my primary heat in the colder months once the heat pump is not efficient do to the outdoor temps.. I have installed many systems like this, sometimes moving or adding a return can make ceiling supply heating systems much more efficient and comfortable...

I don't mind the debate, lol

@ April 20, 2014 10:02 AM in losing heat

I would rather debate something I know about, since knowing that these new washers with 3 and 4 {some have a triple on the hot and then a single on the cold that just feeds to the hots valve assembly, try to figure that one out} solenoids can cause crossover is one of the only things I know about them, lol...

I have been on many service calls and have a few friends in the business that feel they can call me when ever they have a problem that takes more than 5 minutes to diagnose, so I tend to see A LOT of "different" situations.
I don't mind it, I like the challenge, and I like to think I am good at trouble shooting because I use what I like to call "Kid Logic", thats when you take something like a banging steam pipe from a clogged return and convert it to something so simple as thinking about it like an old man walking through a rocky tunnel, or thinking about power as a bouncing ball bouncing in and out of each rollout switch, or warm combustion air as a hot air balloon always wanting to rise and being pushed and pulled in the easiest direction but deflating when there is negative pressure...
I once walked into a basement that a well known local oil company with 15+ techs and 2 service managers had been pulling their hair out trying to figure out why this boiler was sooting up, as a favor to see what I thought could be causing the problem... It was a 3 section gold that would run for 5-8 days and plug rite up... They had done everything, measured combustion air, down fired, put a larger smoke pipe, a draft inducer, and this thing would still clog rite up in a week...

I asked when it started and no one knew, they had bought the house with a new boiler in it in the summer time and it didnt start sooting up until they used it for heat..

So I started by, getting everything back to where it should be, I put the correct nozzle back in, set the pump psi, set the combustion, draft was great, I went rite through it... And I take a smoke test- trace to zero, perfect... So what does that tell me, it runs fine while I am watching it, so WHAT CHANGES? I start looking around, basement is as good as clear, some storage in a corner, the laundry is upstairs, nothing to take my combustion air away...
So I close it up tight, shut the basement door, and take another smoke test again PERFECT....

Now I take a walk around the house, what is causing this? no cat fur in the burner fan, no loose debris getting sucked in, no centri air door, all the weird stuff I have seen in the past, so I am thinking this is going to be a new one, kind of excited about it to be honest...

And then I see it...............

A turbo blower, the type you would use to dry carpet. It was sitting next to a closet door with an extension cord wrapped around it.. I asked what they use that for and the replay was, His wife cooks for her side business from Friday night to Sunday night every week, and she puts that in the window since there is no kitchen exhaust fan, AAH HAA, lets throw it in the window and take a smoke test shall we, what did we find a 4 smoke...
I read the label and it was something like 2000 cfm, she used it all summer, but didnt plug the boiler because it was only running for dhw, as soon as it got a little cold and ran for heat {probably non stop since she was pumping heated air outside} it sooted up... case closed.. The service manager that was with me, said "you can not use that fan" I said "sure they can, just open this window at the same time and it wont go negative..." But they agreed it was not going to get used in the winter, since this was just a shoulder month, and she wouldnt be blowing out heated air in January...

Anyway, when it comes to trouble shooting, you need to think of everything you wouldn't think of, and use anyone elses experiences you can...
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