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heatpro02920

heatpro02920

Joined on January 28, 2013

Last Post on August 7, 2014

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Series loop

@ April 24, 2014 6:26 PM in Apartment building zoning solution - Tekmar tn2?

It has its place, its cheap, its fast, and although should get a lot of thought in its design doesn't...

LOL

@ April 24, 2014 6:14 PM in Some stuff for sale...

I dont know what i am doing wrong, I tried to email everyone back, I don't know why youdont get my messages, I think I may be replying wrong because I have sent a few replys out from the emails and never get them...

Call me (4 0 1 ) 4 1 9 0 0 7 5


AND I HAVE More STUFF FOR SALE>>>>>>>

I have 14 Buderus panel rads, I have been holding onto them and using them here and there {mostly in bathrooms}, I bought them for jobs, and an extra one here an extra 7 there I end up with $5000 of extra panels that I paid for in my shop collecting dust...

They are from 2000 btu to 3800 btu each, some good sizes like 24x24x 2 1/2, 36x20x 2 1/2 If someone wants them all and wants to drive up for them, I'll sell all 14 for $2000 come and get em'.... Brand new in the boxes never opened, I would say the total cost would be around $3500... These are the slim ones 2 1/2" so you end up like 4" off the wall, people like them like that, I have a ton of adapters too, but you can just buy them from your supplier since I use them all the time...

I know I can buy

@ April 24, 2014 6:10 PM in What's your opinion on this design...

a slant fin, williamson, hydro therm, ect gas boiler for a few hundred more than the rmb costs!!!

A v-man may be a little more than that though, lol...

I have it in my head to separate all low temp radiant and high temp DHW/base board/Hydro air/ect lately.... I just quoted a job to replace a Burnham v7 oil with a solo 60 and a solo 110, the houses heatloss comes to 128K, the radiant side of the house does around 28K of the total load, so I quoted a solo 110 to connect to his existing indirect, bb, and 2 air coils, then a solo 60 to run the radiant, I also quoted a 175 to run the entire house, believe it or not the dual boiler setup wasn't much more {when you look at the entire job that is}...

I am so sick of changing mixing valves and water tanks. I got a new customer that called in while I was away with some leaks, it turned out she let her glycol get too old and it destroyed her mixing valves, she has 11 of them and they are all in rough shape, I havent seen it with my own eyes yet, but I am most likely going to fphx that job and repipe what I can...

It seems they are out of stock

@ April 24, 2014 5:58 PM in Are you in the market for a Thermal Imager?

2 people have let me know that they are out of stock at value testers, I should have 3 more coming to me since I bought them the other day when they were in stock, but not sure...

I know 5 or so other HH members go the order in time and a few local friends of mine, I used mine today to track some condensation issues and it worked great... I have a feeling they are going to get hard to find soon...

LOL, yah the video is fast

@ April 24, 2014 5:15 PM in Are you in the market for a Thermal Imager?

the easiest way is to log onto teamviewer.com, plug in your camera and let him do it from his pc to yours... Thats what I did, you just call his phone he logs in and 5 minutes later logs off... You can see everything he is doing rite infront of you on your screen, and then its done..

You can do a t-stat with

@ April 24, 2014 6:26 AM in Apartment building zoning solution - Tekmar tn2?

a lockout code or a simple construction sensor like the icm sc070 or what ever temp you want to fix them at...

I made a little configuration up for a customer of mine, it is a 65 degree pill and a 70 degree pill with a stdp switch mounted in a box with a cover marked high low off, they flip the switch to high and it goes to 70 low goes to 65 and off shuts the tstat off... He installs them in all of his apartments...

OK,

@ April 23, 2014 10:12 PM in Apartment building zoning solution - Tekmar tn2?

so you want to install a zone valve in each unit, I have done it this way before... BUT you really need to know where the pipes are coming from and where the tees are.... I offer thermal imaging services, but it may be cheaper to buy a camera, since it can get time consuming....

Having a drawn out piping print will save you when the contractor comes to install the zoning since he is going to charge you to figure it out himself...

The thing with the tn2 is you dont need 80% of the features, so to buy a $450 control when the $150 taco control will do what you need is kind of a waste..

If you are going to use zone valves I would use a grundfoss alpha pump, taco sentry valves, and the taco zvc404 control...

Problem is with out know how your building is piped you have no idea how to zone it, I have seen multi levels that feed all the floors on different walls, in other words the pipe on the north wall is feeding all 5 floors, so you can only zone the base board on them walls together...

Do you have some pics of the piping you can see, another option depending how its piped is to install thermostatic valves {trv}at each unit... If I knew how it was ran I could give you some ideas..

I have a customer

@ April 23, 2014 8:49 PM in Wall-mount radiator install?

he didnt do it or know who did it, he bought the house this way, they put threaded rod with nuts and washers to keep the unit from the wall, then squeezed the radiator with them...

CI and mod con

@ April 23, 2014 8:45 PM in Best Value in Combination Hydronic / Domestic Boiler and radiators

ci is cast iron {standard boiler you would see in most homes} mod con is modulating condensing {like a wall hung boiler}.

I am going to guess you are under 40K BTU total heat load... so I would install a Weil mclain gold cgi25 and just a basic 40 gallon gas water heater, any brand, I have bad luck with them all, lol...

That tiny boiler will last a long time and wont use much more energy than any of the high tech units available...

I personally

@ April 23, 2014 8:35 PM in Apartment building zoning solution - Tekmar tn2?

would not go with zone valves, I would give each floor its own Bumble bee circ. set up for delta t, I would also just run a taco sr504 {or how ever zones you want}, let the boiler do what it is made to do as far as reset and DHW priority, just use the zone board and sensors for zoning, it will cost much less.

You need to figure out your current piping configuration and where to split it, probably much more important than how you control the zoning is the piping...
If its possible to make a fast drawing of how its currently piped that would be helpful..

No I havent heard of any

@ April 23, 2014 7:00 PM in Are you in the market for a Thermal Imager?

I have the i7's too...

Good question Steamhead

@ April 23, 2014 6:21 PM in Are you in the market for a Thermal Imager?

It does void the warranty, but he leaves your firmware on the unit, so you can easily erase the hacked version, he showed me how to do it, and after that is done there is no way to know it was ever hacked....

I was worried about the same thing, but then when I thought about it, mine have been awesome, I never heard about any issues, and being they are only 895 each vs what I paid for my others, I will be happy if it lasts 2 years, lol... Which they are very well made and should last for 10 years being used everyday...

I have done a single energy audit and charged more than this camera costs!!!! I am glad to see people taking advantage of it, I read on the internet a lot of people bought them that have no use for them, just as a hobby to see in the dark and look through peoples clothes yah, it kinda works :) lol, but in our field these can be very handy, this one is so sensitive I can see pretty small gas leaks {a friend of mine has the one made for gas leaks, not sure the model number but that one can detect a gas leak down to something like 9 oz's a year!!!] My other ones can find refrigerant leaks easily, I am going to test out the condensation leak finder tomorrow, that looks very cool...

Maybe I just like new toys.....


you compare other cameras with this type of resolution and the prices are crazy...

http://www.valuetesters.com/fluke-ti32-60hz-thermal-imager-for-industrial-and-commercial-applications-1.html
http://www.valuetesters.com/hvac/thermal-imaging-camera/testo-882-thermal-imager-camera-kit-0560-0882-70.html
http://www.valuetesters.com/hvac/thermal-imaging-camera/flir-e60bx-thermal-imaging-camera-msx-enabled.html

The cheapest is the ideal heatseaker which is crap, google it and you will see what I am talking about, its $5600 and its not ideal at all...

Seems expensive to me

@ April 23, 2014 6:12 PM in What's your opinion on this design...

Last one I bought was over 1000, just seemed like a lot for what you get in the box, the pump block and a few sensors.... For a couple hundred bucks more you can get a 52K BTU GWA-052 gas boiler and run it at 105 degrees just for the radiant, lol.... Don't worry about mixing at that point... Or even a simple rinnai tankless just for the radiant for that much money, at least then you get something for your thousand bucks.....

Granted they are nice and they work well, just seems like a lot of money for what you get, I love Taco and they are in my back yard, and I have met the owner John, he is a great guy, lol, but that RMB should be like $470 tops :)

Mine is firmware 1.21

@ April 23, 2014 5:30 PM in Are you in the market for a Thermal Imager?

and my friend just did one today that is 1.22 there is a video on youtube on how to hack the newer models, they encrypted them so someone made a file to un-encrypt it and its all there in the youtube vid...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXJYv_MxIHw
he also has a vid for the previous models..

He also has links to all of the sites you need in the links tab on that video... He did mine from his pc on my pc and it took 5 minutes, I know a few other guys online that did the 1.22's, but I think the 1.21's are still for sale at valuetesters.com ...

The new upgrade he did for me changed everything, now I have delta t readouts, red hot blue cold limits, condensation leak finding mode, and more, its great... Hopefully some HH members take advantage of it, I know a few ordered yesterday and a few more ordered today, so I am not sure how many more valuetesters have in the 1.21 and 1.22 configuration, but I have 1.21 and it works, and a friend did a 1.22 today {he bought it locally and did the hack himself from the video of instructions, I am not that pc literate although he said it was simple, and he is not much better than me}...

I used it today to find where a pool heater was leaking, I thought it was the weld but it was lower than the weld, a cracked switch housing...

Looks expensive..

@ April 23, 2014 9:59 AM in What's your opinion on this design...

Them taco blocks cost as much as a gas boiler, lol....

I would pipe it p/s with a alpha pump on the primary, then I would run a bumble bee for each zone. For the low temp radiant I would run a fphx with an aquastat run a bumble bee on each side of it. Use a SR504-exp control with a pc700 to control your primary pump, odr, and priority DHW and zoning....

The 5 bumble bees, alpha pump, exp control, and pc700 will cost around what the mixing block will cost, lol...
It will give you delta t operation for each load, delta P for your primary loop, ODR, priority dhw, and low high temp separation for your radiant..

We all do things different, I prefer not to use mixing valves and zone valves if I can get around it. FPHX have come a long way in reliability and cost, I like how they control radiant with a simple digital a419 aqaustat tired in and a pump on each side.. and you can save costs by teeing your water feed, expansion tank, PRV rig to take care of both sides of the fphx..

You can make it look really nice with some webstone swag..
http://www.supplyhouse.com/Webstone-58755-0-1-1-4-Sweat-Run-x-1-1-4-Hydro-Core-Right-Flange-Manifold
off the top of the hydro-core http://www.supplyhouse.com/Webstone-HCE4-53-1-Union-x-3-4-Sweat-Hydro-Core-End
off the top of the circhttp://www.supplyhouse.com/Webstone-50403-3-4-Sweat-Isolator-Flange-Pair-7787000-p

looks expensive but when you factor in the parts and time its only about double the cost of doing it with separate parts and the added labor, but it looks better, works better, saves time, and has a lot less leak points...


not sure what size hx you would need but they arent as expensive as they used to be http://www.supplyhouse.com/FlatPlate-FG5X12-6-6-plate-3-4-Thread-20-GPM-Heat-Exchanger-5-x-12 I use this same one on a walkway snow melt, its been there for 4 years no issues... I have done plenty of radiant jobs with fphx and they are worry free work machines...

FLush

@ April 23, 2014 9:22 AM in losing heat

just open the bottom valve until it flows clean water, some people will add cleaners and vinegar to the tank, then turn the dial way up to boil it and then rinse it with bleach to make a big deal out of cleaning the tank, but once a year it is good to just drain off the bottom until it runs clean, this keeps your valve working {hopefully} and keeps settling sediment from rotting out the bottom of your tank....

Sorry it was late, lol

@ April 23, 2014 8:49 AM in Rinnai TGWH info

I just noticed that it was Bob...

I'll send you an email with some of my pricing info...

As far as selling the product goes...

Call Rinnai and get their service books and anything they can send you, they have decent literature available, I have been installing them for around 10 years with hundreds of them out there and service issues have not been an issue, as they approach 15 years old I imagine I am going to be repairing and replacing them more often

If you install them with unions and a strap board {this is a peice of 1x1 that I now install at the base of the units, it makes it easier to remove and replace the unit as well as mount it initially if you are by yourself, simply mount it at the height you want, level it and then install the unit against it} you can replace the unit in 15 minutes!!!

Besides the strap board I install I have learned a few other tricks over the years, like for recircs use a small bosch es8 tank {I have posted pics and drawings of this on HH}.
Try to sell the customer the High Sierra shower heads {you can buy them direct and make a couple bucks on the but more important is they will almost double the energy savings and I have never gotten a complaint about them, I use them and they are great, they never clog, super power, and use little water},
Also when doing new construction recommend they install double handle faucets vs the mono handle units, this will cut down on the cycling, I wouldn't mention this as much with retro's since it can scare customers thinking they need all new faucets, which is not the case, just more convenient to have the double handles...
For venting, use the ubinks stuff, follow the venting instructions, and you will never have an issue, if you sway from their designs you will regret it...
Push the controls with the sale, I installed an RU98i in my own home {I was going to keep 2 of them, but for showing them to customers I wanted them to see my 4300 sq ft home with 4 full baths could be satisfied by a single unit}, it has the es8 for recirc with a grundfoss pump, a control in the laundry room, one in the master bath and one in the kitchen as well as the one on the unit, they do a lot of stuff, like intercom, lock, tub fill, ect..

As far as condensing vs non, I tell people the rl is just as nice may need less service {yet to be seen since neither have given me problems}, and with the ru you save maybe 10% a year, with a unit that only costs $120 a year to operate anyway thats $12 a year, so is it worth it? Kind of goes by what the customer wants to do...

Anyway if you need any more info give me a call, I have tried takagi, and a couple other brands and I can say for the price, customer support, and overall product quality Rinnai is the brand... Takagi is in the middle, Navian is at the bottom and Rinnai and Nortiz are towards the top...

Emails sent

@ April 23, 2014 6:24 AM in Are you in the market for a Thermal Imager?

We played with it for a while last night, works great. If I missed replying to anyone that emailed me, message me again and I will forward the info along, I sent 8 emails but I may have missed a couple because I was deleting them as I sent them... thanks...

So I set one of these up today

@ April 22, 2014 9:58 PM in Are you in the market for a Thermal Imager?

I figured for $900 I would give it a shot, I have to say I am very impressed. It came in a few days, I called the gentleman that could convert it for me, he did it over the computer in 5 minutes and it was done !!!!!!!!! The picture is better than my $6000+ IMAGER!!!!!! I am going to sell all of my other imagers on ebay this week and replace them with these.. I paypal'ed him $50 for his time, and I would never have gotten it done with out him, lol...

I will post some pics of it tomorrow, I should have taken before and afters but I didn't... I have to say, the images are incredible compared to my I7's and 60... Plus a ton of options in the menu, it actually has more menu features than the e8 originally had...

Anyway for those who emailed me about them, email me back if I missed you and didn't reply, I will give you the info..

No money talk, sorry

@ April 22, 2014 9:44 PM in Rinnai TGWH info

more important than the cost is the contractor, don't just go for the "cheap" guy, get the contractor that you are comfortable with. I install a lot of Rinnai units and they are very nice, reliable, make plenty of hot water for most houses, my house has 4 full bathrooms and we can run all of the showers with no issues.

I recommend the RL94 for most homes, easy install, reliable, very nice... For the people that like the best, the ru98 is nice too... Also I try to talk all my customers into installing High Sierra shower heads at the same time..

Where are you located, there may be a contractor on here that can help you out...

heres the drawing

@ April 22, 2014 10:54 AM in Electric VS Indirect

this shows an indirect but it will pipe identically to your mix and cold from your tankless, this will let you run the water through the tankless and into your hybrid for the summer and then through your hybrid and into your tankless in the winter, it will help with your cold winter water too, since you will have 50 gallons sitting in there all the time soaking up an ambient temp in your basement...

IMO the only thing that will save you money is either gas or a hybrid, a gas tankless can work well too... Its hard to justify the cost of a device once you factor in its lifespan, the hybrids seem to be coming with 10 year warranties, so figure on worse case you get the 10 out of it, if the unit costs you x amount to install and the only reason to install it is to save money you need to figure out of it will do that inside its lifespan... So if you are spending $150 of oil per summer, and the unit costs you $2000 and costs you $70 a summer to run, it saves you 80 per year so 80x10 years is $800, it would cost you $1200 and save you nothing, and it would have to last you 25 years to pay for itself {not going to happen}...
Now if you are doing it to save the earth, or the rebates make it much cheaper, then that is a different story......

Step one is to figure out what dhw costs you per summer, step 2 figure out what a hybrid would cost you per summer, step 3 get s price on the hybrid step 4 do the math...

You can also figure about 10% in for adding a little life to your boiler since it wont be working all year if you like and another 5% for being Green, maybe another 5% for the cold air in the summer... If you need to help it make sense..

Check with your electric provider

@ April 22, 2014 10:48 AM in Electric VS Indirect

to see if they have any rebates for hybrid water heater installs, here we are currently showing $750 {last yr was $1000}, so if they do have a rebate that can cover a lot of the initial costs, a Hybrid is great in the summer since their bi-product is cold dehumidified air.. Running them in the winter is OK too, but you will be cooling air that you paid to heat...

The install is simple, run 220 to the heater, a condensate {3/4 or 1/2 PVC} to a drain or to the outside, and the hot and cold lines... you can install it pretty easily in your existing water lines, I have a drawing around here on hot to pipe it so it can be configured before or after your tankless by shutting a series of valves, so in the winter it isnt sitting with stagnant water in it and it will work as a prestage for your tankless...
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