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heatpro02920

heatpro02920

Joined on January 28, 2013

Last Post on April 22, 2014

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I would still put it at the burner...

@ April 9, 2014 6:14 PM in Top of tank oil filter

I would have to see a picture, it doesn't have to be super close, just in the burner room, use stainless flex lines from the t-loop ultra to the pump and bolt the t-loop where ever it will fit.... There has to be some clearance there, I can not picture a ci gold jammed into a closet as they are not z/c units...

You'll be stepping over $100.00 bills to pick up a possible hand full of dimes.

@ April 9, 2014 6:08 PM in Recirc Line

depending on the size of your hand this could be profitable, key is to step in gum, then step on the $100 bill so it sticks to your shoe, then also pick up the handful of dimes.. Win Win...


If his existing recirc pump is on its way out, noisy and inefficient, than changing it wouldn't be a terrible idea, I do see where you are going with this, unless his house is very loose and 5K+ sq ft he is most likely over sized on the heating side.

As a pro this is nothing I am not used to seeing, I almost look forward to turning the basement corner of a 10 year old, 2050 sq ft, well insulated x6 construction, raised ranch and seeing the brand new Intrepid TR50 sitting there, this happened to me about 2 months ago, that slant fin tr50 will fire up to around 350K BTU's, and this houses heatloss is 60K TOPS... They pulled out a Burnham that was leaking and someone either had this monster sitting in their shop or was just asleep at the wheel, sad to say its not the most over sized appliance I have ever seen either... I replaced a pair of 700K BTU boilers in a small motel with a single 480K BTU unit, 5 years ago and to date it has never not kept up... One of the things that separates the good from the not so good in our business is the heat loss..

If I were doing the job

@ April 9, 2014 4:52 PM in Is my steam boiler way oversized?

I would try to talk you into getting NG if it is available first off... {check costs to bring in service and make chimney work}...

Then I would contact US and see what the cost of new rods, jacket side panels, seal, ect looks like.

Then contact Carlin for a gas burner...

I would also repipe everything in your pictures, and insulate EVERYTHING.. Get the piping rite for what is there, kind of a start over and see where it ends up job, nothing I would tackle in the winter months, but now you should be good to get the research done, find the rite pro and be happy with your 100 year old heating system..

There is a market for that becket burner, ebay would be the best place to unload it if you can not find a buyer here on our classifieds and your contractor isn't interested...

good luck, looks like a fun project..

central return

@ April 9, 2014 4:08 PM in New install Furnace

When I built my house {4300 sq ft} I have a return in every room, my bedroom has 2 returns... returns are your friend the more the better..

I am on an install now, old construction/remodel- I have 6 and 7" supplies and 8" returns throughout the house, 2- 98% furnaces variable / modulating ect with dual air exchangers, and dual steam humidifiers , I will use a central return on small houses {or zones} with open layouts, or where cost is an issue, but for a decent FWA system, independant returns is the way to go...

As far as the dampers go, they arent that much more cost wise, but you will need to do all home runs to use them for each diffuser, the mv's I linked are not as loud other on the market, and if you size the duct correctly balancing shouldn't be a huge issue, its a small area, air flow will be key..

I like the grundfos pumps

@ April 9, 2014 9:07 AM in Recirc Line

The tacos look good too..
With Recirc systems, there are a few things I try to do when I install them to make them as efficient as possible..
First the less time you run them the better, so I install a timer and aquastat, install the a-stat as far from the heater and close to the last fixture as possible {harder to do if you use an all in one pump}...
make the recirc loop hold as little water as possible, small lines with a straight path
Insulate all the DHW lines as well as you can, I run insulated pex and then run them in a separate bay {near heating piping if possible} and insulate them bays {new construction of course}..
and run the recirc line at the lowest comfortable temperature...

The ideal systems have occupancy controls, so when someone is in the bathroom or approaching a kitchen sink the unit starts, then only circs until that fixture has hot water waiting...
Some day there will be faucets available that automatically do this and stop the pump when it is warm, but until then light, power, and motion sensors can be used, while timers and a-stats help, to me I just hate spending money on DHW. I can not wait for the day when DHW is handled with point of use heaters, just run cold lines and the heaters are built into all the fixtures...

Thats a small 90+

@ April 8, 2014 9:57 PM in New install Furnace

I wouldn't worry about the air trouble, it gets its combustion air from outside, problem solved, if you are worried about negative pressure, seal the ducts well, vent the dryer properly and use a small door vent...

Run at least 4- 6" vents and if you are using a central return run it so it is directly over their pellet stove, so they can run "fan only" and circulate the warm air from the pellet stove throughout the property... If you can get 12" flex for a return and maybe another small return outside the laundry room, you will be more than good...

stay away from 4" duct, make sure you have enough cfm to cool the chamber, you dont want to choke that thing to death, you will make short work of the heat exchangers with insufficient airflow...

I do not run anything but...

@ April 8, 2014 4:55 PM in Benefits of 2-pipe vs single

single line tiger loop systems.... No dual lines unless they are inground tanks and I haven't done one of them.... ever....

Spoke with Deb at Heating Help today

@ April 8, 2014 4:44 PM in Spoke with Deb at Heating Help today

I have been meaning to pick up the rest of Dans books, I have read greening steam and we have steam heat, and I have EDR {no fitter should be with out that one}, but I have wanted to pickup pumping away, pri sec made easy, and lost art of steam, and I just haven't had time, well I just learned we are going to go out of town to my inlaws {in Florida, we leave Friday}, and it dawned on me I have nothing to read while I am there. I read a lot in my free time and since I haven't had much of that it hasn't been a real issue.

So I called in to place the order to see if it was at all possible to get the 3 books before we leave on Friday and Deb said she would personally bring them to the post office today!!! I can't wait and I am very thankful, what great service with a friendly phone call, much appreciated...

thanks

@ April 8, 2014 4:36 PM in Central air vs mini split?

gonna have to look into it..

all in the flux

@ April 8, 2014 4:34 PM in New Lead Free ball valves

when I first started using the lead free stuff I didnt get leaks but the joints looked sub par, I changed fluxes and va walla, perfect... or kind of perfect..

Brick

@ April 8, 2014 4:32 PM in R- Value

I do .2 per inch, something like you are describing I would do r5 total... Is it exact, no probably not, is it rite enough without being horribly wrong, yah.... With brick it can depend on age, the quality of the seal, ect ect ect, I have seen double wall with an air gap, I have seen everything in that gap from foam to a piece of plywood to nothing but air... Like I said I do .2 for every inch of brick, then add what else is there, you will most likely be under r5 when you are done...

I have never had a property

@ April 8, 2014 1:47 AM in Value of converting oil/steam to modcon gas?

that I couldn't figure a way to vent.. Sure its not as easy as plugging into an existing chimney but nothing is impossible... Use your head and get er' done... I hear a lot of guys say, "how would you vent a tankless and a mod con"? Its easy, I have done it many many times, no complaints and the jobs still made money...

Thats funny you said that

@ April 7, 2014 4:40 PM in Install electric tank

I thought about 3 ways but then you still need an isolation valve on each tank since I 3 way is still on in one direction or the other... With the 6 valves you can use them to shut it down completely incase of service, with 3 ways you cant shut them off all together... plus 3 way ball valves are expensive, I pay $29 for one 3/4 3 way vs $30 for all 6 3/4 std ball valves...

I have tried many different ways to tackle DHW

@ April 7, 2014 4:28 PM in Indirect or Combo Boiler with Recirc DHT?

I just don't see the sense in running heating equipment year round, I don't like tanks {around here if you get 8 years you can count your self very lucky}, I don't see the sense in running hot water 24-7 when we use it for an hour a day, and I have had great luck with tanklesses, happy customers and good results all around... While the initial install can be costly, in 20 years or so when you have to replace it, you can do it yourself, 3 unions, plug it in, and hang it on the wall... I see this is the near future, your boiler breaks, you just plug in a new one...


For recircs I like the mini tank setup, another thing I do is run the recirc line as small as possible and make sure its insulated as well as your hot line where ever the recirc goes... http://www.homedepot.com/p/SharkBite-3-8-in-x-100-ft-Insulated-PEX-Pipe-U855I100/203316939?cm_mmc=shopping-_-googleads-_-pla-_-203316939&skwcid&kwd=&ci_sku=203316939&ci_kw=&ci_gpa=pla&ci_src=17588969

I would do this with colored valve handles..

@ April 7, 2014 7:13 AM in Install electric tank

So the valves that have to be open for the indirect to work would be Blue handled and there would be a blue label on the indirect, and the valves for the hybrid would have yellow handles with a yellow label on the hybrid..

The colored labels would say " to operate hybrid heater in summer months, open all yellow handle valves, shut boiler service switch and turn on hybrid tanks switch...

Now you could do this with a control and 6 electronic valves, but it would cost around $1000 just in materials, lol.. Much better option just to draw a diagram make some labels and trust the homeowner is smart enough to turn a valve {I know its asking a lot}... I honestly would probably take a picture of the valves in each position and have them printed and laminated then hung on each unit... even though its not hard to get, I feel some people may have trouble, lol....

I am so curious about radiant cooling

@ April 6, 2014 9:25 PM in Central air vs mini split?

I have never done it, not very popular around here... where can I go to read more about it...

that would be the idea

@ April 6, 2014 9:20 PM in Install electric tank

Shouldnt be too hard to follow, when the valves are on the the water flows through them, I would simplify it and just shut the not in use tank off...

OK, I found a pic {not a good one}

@ April 6, 2014 8:57 PM in Indirect or Combo Boiler with Recirc DHT?

of a similar install, this was done after the water heater was installed, it was a mess, started with a simple Rinnai install and then ended up wanting recirc, Its a terrible picture, but you see the ss pump and the a-stat in the recirc line, the rinnai unit piped in above the mini tank. So done for a lot less in materials, a lot more simple, just pipe it through and add a circ with a-stat, I used the a-stat from his water old water heater, you can use any aquastat or none, but I prefer the grundfos pump with all the bells and whistles... I like the timer, since I set mine so it doesnt recirc from 10pm to 5 am and then from 8am to 3pm so my recirc only runs around 10 hours a day and the tanks are small, tight, and very well insulated so they have hardly any stand by losses, the low amount of surface area and the small amount of water make them efficient...


Anyway, as you can see you can make it as simple or complicated as you like, I did one with 2 rinnai ru98's, a bosch es8 tank {the on in the pics}, a ss 009 pump on the recirc with an aquastat that was slave to a series of power sensing modules, one on each bathroom light and one in the kitchen, so when the bathroom or kitchen lights were on, the pump ran until the a-stat was satisfied, it was new contruction the home owner was an electrician, it came very nice..

Just a simple tiny water heater

@ April 6, 2014 8:46 PM in Indirect or Combo Boiler with Recirc DHT?

I like the Bosch but I have used others in my systems, the first one I designed was a 6ga rheem I believe... It worked well, any small electric water heater will do it...

I have plugged in kilo watt meters and asked customers about their electric bills, the meter showed about $6 a month to run the tank {I got a different reading every time I did it, lowest was $3 highest was $9} and all the customers I asked about the power usage said they never noticed a difference....

This is the more expensive of my installations, not all of them are done like this, you can do the same thing with out using all of them fittings, I have a picture of it done much simpler, I will look for one...

This shows the grundfos pump {built in a-stat and timer} with the check valve flanges, plus webstone isolation unions and a 3/4 cross tee, ect them parts add up, I believe cross tees alone are $15 or so... Ill find a picture of a simple install I did, I have one in mind, it was a VERY tight budget....

So the pipe going into the right side of the tank is coming from the tanklesses hot line, the one coming straight down through the top goes to the recirc line, and the left {hot} goes to the houses hot water supply.. pretty simple, the center ball valve stays off unless you want to by pass the mini tank...

PS Sorry for the dirty stairs in the picture, I took all of this out of my service truck and stuck it together on the stairs to my garages attic...

what size furnace

@ April 6, 2014 8:22 PM in New install Furnace

whats the cfm on the furnace?

is this house down to the studs?

I wouldnt run a central return, I would run the largest flex duct you can fit for the supplys {minimum of 6" flex} and then run 75-80% to each room for a return, on the opposite side of the room {in other words, 2-6" supplys with an 8" return for that room}... Make sure you are taking outdoor combustion air if this is going in a laundry and seal your returns with ductmate...

you can use airtec mv diffusers with 6" flex...

good point with the fumes, I didnt think of that for dv and pv systems...

@ April 6, 2014 7:56 PM in Install electric tank

I think there is a company that makes an electric aux indirect, others may know the model number?Swei as far as stagnant water goes, its not a huge issue, its only 5-6 months, no sunlight, under pressure kept cold, hot water not drinking, you can flush it drain it once a month or add a tiny bit of bleach if you like... I guess you could also drain it, but I would rather just keep it full...But in case you are worried I re designed it a bit, lolthis will make it so cold water flows through the tank not being used first then goes into the hot tank and onto the fixtures, no more stagnant issue, there are 5 different ways to pipe this, I would use some webstone purge tees and make it pretty simple, but you get the idea from my key and picture.. the thin lines that cross the pipes do not tap into the pipe they are crossing, and each number is a valve... just did it quick, you can do it a bunch of different ways... this drawing shows reverse flowing one tank but you can flow them both the correct way with the same amount of valves...

Mini tank

@ April 6, 2014 6:36 PM in Indirect or Combo Boiler with Recirc DHT?

Its not really counter productive to have the mini tank for recirc, it actually works very very well, I have done enough of them to be confident its the way to go.... Including my own house...
I have one going in this week, I actually build them as a kit at the shop and then just bring them to the site ready to install, if you like I can post a picture of the one sitting in m truck rite now... The tanks hardly use any power, they literally just run enough to make up for the heatloss of your recirc loop... They dont even run on startup since you can just run the rinnai to fill it with hot water, and every time you run the hot water it fills the tank... its a really nice setup, and when you use the rite parts it can be very convenient...

Let me know and Ill post a pic of what it looks like...
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