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heatpro02920

heatpro02920

Joined on January 28, 2013

Last Post on August 7, 2014

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never buy a sprinter again

@ February 3, 2013 3:27 PM in Sprinter or Nissan NV?

I bought one new in 07 and I had an amazing 13 separate service issues before 50K miles!!! and a few of them issues took weeks to sort out, the turbo problem was hard for them to get their finger on, as was the egr problem that came before that and back after the turbo was changed, then a wiring harness and ecu, yes never again...

I don't like the looks of the nissan, I buy straight gmc utility bodies now, and install gang boxes and drawers in the beds {weatherguard pack rat} much easier.. plus I believe gm is still doing the $25K write off program...

depends on a lot of things

@ February 3, 2013 1:59 PM in Baseboard Calculation Question

Do you know the manufacturer?

If all else fails you can use some math, if you know the ambiant temp, temp going in, temp going out, should be able to figure it out... then divide that by how many feet in the test board for per foot number....

Stuff I have used was 800btu at 200* but may be different that what you have..

very true

@ February 3, 2013 1:37 PM in Making Heating System use less oil

Some of the most efficient systems I have ever installed {besides geo} are NG fueled with heat pumps for the mild load days... If he gets someone out there that is honest and smart, they should sit down and do all the math, to make sure what ever system he goes with saves in the end.... spending $5K to save $2K over the life of the system still loses $3K....

Definitely need more info before I can give you better advice on which way to go, like I said if your boiler was in need of change that is a no brainer, NG unit of some sort with all the latest bells and whistles you can afford... :)

Kind of like buying a hybrid car and throwing away your V8 car with 25K miles on it, will you save what you lost before you started? I know this is much different, cars have resale value, and you dont need to pay for them to be installed and removed...

Find a good tech to use his eyes before you use your wallet...

@ February 3, 2013 11:16 AM in Making Heating System use less oil

I say start with getting someone out there to take a look at it, I get this service call all the time, "Im using too much oil" ... Normally new customers... I start with a visual inspection which is doesn't cost much, and I give the customer my opinion and a few options that coincide with their budget and expected savings... I inspect their equipment house and energy bill.

Next step would be an efficiency test if the boiler is clean, if not clean then a tune up and service {which includes eff test}.... Next step would be to perform an energy audit and figure out the buildings heat loss... Im sure you can find someone local to do the same...It makes sense to spend a couple bucks because of the size of your home, at nearly 3000 sq you can spend a lot of money on heat in a short amount of time...

But anyway, your boiler isn't very old if replaced in 03 so its a shame to get rid of it before its time, you need to factor this in...

last summer I went to a new customers home that wanted to switch to gas, they only owned the home for a year, and heated with the oil system all last season and did not like the cost... Well their boiler was only about 3 years old Buderus triple pass and for hot water they had a really old aero direct fired tank {oil}.... The boiler had a becket AFG Which is the first time I seen one in a buderus boiler {normally carlin or riello}, they paid to have the boiler cleaned twice since they bought the home, and I attribute this to the afg lack of static pressure.

AnywayIll shorten this up for you, they didnt have Natural gas available, but did have propane at the property already... I tossed the direct fired tank, installed a rinnai 96% tankless {LP}, installed the correct Riello Burner, changed the circs to delta T and control to outdoor reset Honeywell {boiler had no LWCO so it was 2 birds}.... So now the boiler isnt running all summer just to make hot water, the new burner running correctly with a few simple control changes, and some pipe insulation, they are very happy {they waited for a couple cold months before they left good news on angies list}, seems they are saving around 50%... But if I remember correctly their bill was around $3000 for the parts and work I did...

So the moral of the story is get someone out there to take a look at whats already there, you may be able to use what you have, just a little different and save money... Now if your boiler was in disrepair and need to be changed it makes sense to go ahead and change it with something that will save you money, but I see too many people, spend $10K on a new boiler that is going to save them 10% per year and only last 20 years, so if you do the math.. say it costs you $2000 a year to heat your home, you save 10% its $200 per year for 20 years its $4K, but it cost you $10K so you lost $6.... I know there are tons of ways to look at this and you can twist the numbers to do what ever you want, but most of the time upgrading equipment that is still in working order with 30 years of life left in it, doesnt save you money...

cant find the pic

@ February 3, 2013 10:41 AM in no touch oil nozzle

I buy them at REmicheals CO, cant find a pic, its just a brass hand pump with a t handle and 2 check valves and a tee installed in the bottom...

Dual spin ons is a little excessive

@ February 3, 2013 10:36 AM in no touch oil nozzle

I dont think I can talk my customers into dual spin ons, lol and why one at the burner and one at the tank, why not just 2 at the tank, it will keep the line cleaner wont it?, I dont think you are picking much up in the oil line after the tank and filter especially if they are all new not buried lines....

I don't mind the fb4, gens, or rc cartridge filters, they are cheap , easy to purge , easy to visually inspect, easy to change and dispose of, plus no "poked a hole in my filter housing stories, I have seen it twice, once a customer hit his spin on with a rake and popped a hole, another was caused by his son dropping his bicycle near the tank, the handlebar ripped through the garber, both I was there for the cleanup}....

I clean all my accounts annually and feel that having dual spin ons would leave me with a more expensive cleaning and more service calls.. I think between the filter at the tank and the pump strainer the nozzle should be safe for a year at a time....

I was taught not to touch

@ February 3, 2013 1:39 AM in no touch oil nozzle

Just what I was taught by someone who was fixing heating systems before oil nozzles came out, and I teach the same thing to my new techs... If it is a wives tail, I would probably not be able to train myself to touch them after all these years being careful not to...

I always try the push pull pump first, but sometimes the clog wont move with the pump so I use my nitrogen tank, I start the psi at low and slowly turn up the regulator until the clog moves normally around 50psi is what I notice.. I also notice tapping on the line helps... But the only thing I risk blowing up is the oil line, I disconnect the oil line at both ends, and I have a bucket I made for blowing out oil lines, I actually keep all the blowout tools and pump in the bucket., I put a 3gallon bucket inside a 5 gallon bucket, but there is sand in the bottom of the 5 gallon bucket and the 3 gallon is glued in, this helps it from falling over and makes it easier to deal with, then I have a rubber hose that I install on the other end of the copper line that is fastened into the bucket, Ive been doing it this way for decades and never spilt a drop... I have spilt oil but not with that bucket...

short cycling

@ February 3, 2013 1:17 AM in Cold Tenants

Did you say the boiler cycles on and off ever 1.5 minutes? I would address that first.

What is the boiler temp set at?

Is the 85' of baseboard a constant loop starting in the first room ending in the last?

Im thinking fix the short cycling problem, and make sure there is no air in the loop that may be stopping certain area to get hot water....

I admit to adding the paperclip before...

@ February 2, 2013 11:19 PM in heat without calling

I had a customer I was sure wasnt going to pay me my final, so I left the thermostat to one of the zones unhooked to the relay, with a small note behind the relay cover explaining my actions and leaving my name and number}, and sure enough the final never came, and they must have noticed no heat in there spare bedroom after a while {I want to say it was almost 2 months}, they called another contractor who knew me from the supply houses, and gave me a call, saying he found my note... I went rite over and confronted the home owner, he paid me with a check, I think he understood, it was never going to work correctly if I didnt get my $1500....

Chimney guys were great for this with new construction, they would put a $5 pane of glass in one of the layers of brick, if they got paid they drop a rock down the chimney and break the glass, no payment and the chimney wouldnt work.... But anyway enough of the hijack, back to the op, lol

Nice work...

@ February 2, 2013 9:45 PM in Job pics!

You are forgiven for the used spiro , but the 1156 and dirty copper bypass unforgivable and where is the backflow LOL, jk, I think I see the back flo :)
it looks really good, I am buying my first 2 Prestige units Monday, I have been a loyal GB installer for a long time, may be time to switch up, looks very nice, Im putting one in my home and one in a customers, If Im going to sell them Im I try to use them for a while, who knows maybe Ill never hang the Buderus back up at my house after I start using the TT's... I use smart tanks all the time, I bought over 30 last year, and they never let me down..
Anyway, looks like you do nice work and take pride in it, getting to be hard to find...

Is this a new system?

@ February 2, 2013 9:34 PM in heat without calling

If not its a new problem, if it worked before what is different now, if nothing has been changed a part must have failed? if its a new system and this has been happening since new than its a different story.

My guess it worked at one time and is a new problem, if this is the case, I would be forced to blame it on one of the IFC cartridges, most likely the bedroom one.

If its a new system, I would check the temperature {make sure its not running up to a really high temp because of a faulty or miss-set control}, and make sure its not a faulty Control or thermostat pulling in the circ,,
Then after all that checks out, I would hook my thermometer to the bedroom baseboard loop {about 20" down the supply from the manifold} and record the temp {if its HOT when you get there, open the purge to get some cold water through it, if the water feed is on the return this is a little tougher}, after you record the temp say its 72*, run every zone except the trouble zone one at a time, and watch your thermometer.... If it starts to creep you know somehow water is getting by the flow check {or leaking out}.

To confirm its a flow check problem, I would shut the valve for that zone and see if it persists....

I had one about 2 months ago and seen it before, where 2 other companies checked it out and installed check valves {this system was a new }, and their first zone kept getting warm, oil fired with tankless, sized where the boiler had to be around 200* for some reason very little element in the house... I had to install a heat trap, the installer used 3/4" supply and return for 4 zones, so Installed a simple trap out of 1" copper, 12x12, I followed up 3 days later to make sure the problem was fixed and they weren't calling someone else, and they said it worked perfectly...

anyway good luck, I just dont think a check valve is your problem solver...

One more thing, I have also seen problems where the customer shut down or blocked all the baseboard vents except for one zone and then called in a service call when one room was hot and the rest were cold, also always be on the lookout for new furniture, I see that once and a while, mostly with people blocking registers in an already undersized duct systen then locking out the limit switch....

I never seen the BB for sale?

@ February 2, 2013 4:33 PM in Triangle tube prestige mod con?

Ill ask my supply house monday about availability on the bumble bee, it would be rite about where I want to be with 15 and 15 for $170 or so wont be bad since I think pay that for the Delta T 007's...

Going over everything Im not sure how secure I am piping a mod con direct? I know it says low head loss but the rep told me to use a 0011, that makes me think I need it lol...

I would much rather pipe it direct since its a less expensive install and may be more efficient... I have always PS piped mod cons and large systems with a lot of big zones....

What would the pros and cons be here?

Direct pipe?

@ February 2, 2013 11:59 AM in Triangle tube prestige mod con?

Wow its been a while since I've done that, lol.. The head loss isnt much at all, one air handler is in the attic 25 feet above the unit {straight shot} and the other is in the basement with the unit about 40 feet from it, all piped with 3/4 pex maybe a 1/2 dozen elbows total.... I haven't actually added it up yet.... They are both 3 ton first company units about 5 years old...

Thanks zman

@ February 2, 2013 11:06 AM in Triangle tube prestige mod con?

I have done a little research and it looks like a good unit, I am going to pick up 2 of these monday, Im going to try one at my own house also {I'll take my trusted gb down for a while and hang the tt up, see how it goes}... Thanks for the input..

Any installation advice, installing with 2 hydroairs, primary secondary, Use 009 and then probably use 007 delta T circulators for each zone....

Triangle tube prestige mod con?

@ February 1, 2013 10:35 PM in Triangle tube prestige mod con?

Hey guys, wondering if any of the pros out there have any thoughts on these, heat exchanger looks just like utica and dunkirks, but I wa told TT was the first to make it and uses better Stainless? It was a tt rep that said that soooooo...

I normally use Buderus GB's but this customer I have wants a S/S exchanger so I am forced to look elsewhere than Buderus...

Im looking at the Prestige Solo 175 which is around $4000 out the door my cost after tax, so if someone has another idea for a mod con that in comparable let me know, and let me know what you think of the TT solo....

PS the unit is running 2 hydro airs, my heat loss shows I need around 145K BTU for the building, the hot water is done with a tankless heater already installed, this is a propane home....

I know its not rite, just want to make it better than terrible...

@ January 31, 2013 9:09 AM in Rinnai tankless running hydro air unit?

I know its not the proper unit to use, but it is what it is. I thank you guys for confirming that it is wrong, I was 100% aware of that and I wish they called me first because they would have a properly sized 95% furnace with a case coil for less than they paid for this mess...

So I either have to make it work or walk away, so this morning I went and installed the 3 way valve {which my taco rep was nice enough to give me as a demo unit that I dont have to return}, I already had one of my techs throw the 009 in the other day, and I wired in a strap on aquastat with the new mcc control so now it will heat to 180... I also piped in a water feed prv and exp tank so its not running at 60psi...

I set the mcc at 180 and the aquastat around 135* I ran it a few times and the used 24v transformer I installed stopped working {I am tring to keep their cost down any way I can}, after throwing in a new transformer, it seems to do the trick..

With my efficiency tester installed I let it run through a few cycles, of course the first cycle went rite to high fire and around 94%eff. then after about 5 minutes the fire started to mod down, {so I adjusted the retrun agaustat} and the zone valve worked properly and diverted flow back to the air handler and the Rinnai unit shut down, then after about 3 minutes the gauge I installed in the return started to show around 140* and the zone valve started to move, then sure enough the rinnai unit went rite to high fire....

Thats what my goal was to keep it out of low fire where it soots up and get 45%efficiency!!!! So I sat there and watched this thing cycle about 8 times, I showed them the ins and outs of what I did and told them its the best I can do for $450 which was a gift because if I had to use new parts and pay for the zone valve parts would have been almost $1000 before labor....

I feel so bad for these kids, its their first home and they got hosed by a plumber {not even a master never mind pipefitter}, hopefully this works for 5-10 years which is what the Rinnai rep told me to expect, and Im hoping now that the unit isnt modding down to low fire it will give them 90+ and maybe they will save some money... The unit is definitely enough btu's to heat the space, just want to keep it from running at 45%...

Thanks for all the replys and all the help

Thanks chris

@ January 30, 2013 12:54 PM in Rinnai tankless running hydro air unit?

I had the 009 so I figured it would do better than the 007, I figured the head at or above 18 since I was under the impression the rinnai unit added 9ft alone and first co told me the head of the hydro coil is over 5, plus Im adding a zone valve, and there are a lot of bends in the piping.... And the 007 is under 1gpm at 11ft.... where the 009 stays above 7 until around 16...

If you think the 007 is a better choice I will try it again, I am an old timer that is very open to advice from others with more experience in circulators ,Im just stareing at some manual charts with my failing eyes, too many yeas of steering at fire, lol.....

The unit is 199K btu 9.8gpm 96% eff. per the box, lol...

I though primary secondary would hurt efficiency with a tankless, I have done it before but when there were multiple zones not just for one small hydro coil? Is my thinking wrong on this? I thought the diversion valve with the aquastat would be more efficient and keep the unit out of low fire {where it is using a lot of fuel and sooting up}....

Any help is appreciated, thanks for the reply, please tell me more... Im a fast learner....

Rinnai says to use a pump with 5 gpm and 40-45 foot of head....

Thanks

@ January 30, 2013 7:19 AM in Rinnai tankless running hydro air unit?

Thanks for the reply, I am thinking the greater flow from the 009, and using a 3 way diversion valve along with an aquastat will give me control over my retrun temps...

Im thinking the aquastat will tell the 3 way valve when there is less than a 50* delta t and then divert the return water back to the coil, then when the retrun temp reaches more than a 50* delta t the 3way valve will direct the return water back through the Rinnai... Plus using the mcc 180* control will help, so now I can set the rinnai at 180, then the 3way valve at 130...

So the t-stat calls for heat, kicks on the 009, the rinnai senses flow and fires, the water circulates through the coil and when it doesnt return cold enough for the aquastat setting, the 3 way valve diverts it back to the air handler bypasing the rinnai..

The point is to keep the rinnai in high fire for as long of the cycle as possible since this is where it is 95% eff. When they are in low fire they seem to be more like 45% eff.... By increasing the flow and bypassing the high temp return Im thinking I can acheive this... Just want some confirmation from other pros...
THanks again, if anyone else has any ideas please let me know...

As for the furnace, they are not going to have the funds for something like that, since they will need to add a case coil and still need to remove walls from the basement to remove the new equipment...

do you have a picture of the system

@ January 28, 2013 9:03 PM in Rinnai Water Heater - Water Not Hot Enough

I would like to see a picture of the system, it sounds to me like the heater units thermostat is wired either 120v to the outlet or to a switching relay that feeds the power when it calls for heat, either way I have never heard of that being done before...

I suggest first getting some pics up here so we can tell what is actually going on, it may be as simple as getting a control that allows the temp to go higher, or maybe getting another unit for your domestic water and let the heating system handle the heat....

Did you ever take the cover off the navian and see if there is 2 pumps or one pump inside?

hope this helps

@ January 28, 2013 5:52 PM in Rinnai Boiler Excessive Fuel Consumption Problem

I would start with an audit, have someone come out and go around the building with a thermal imaging camera and make sure you are not losing the energy anywhere {more than expected} Some hvac contractors keep thermal imaging equipment with them {I have it on a couple of my trucks}, if all looks well {also check the radiant, was this properly installed with insulation, I have seen system just soaking the ground with heat because no one insulated around the footing}... Then I would do some common sense math, I have had customers complain about fuel usage and I go in their home to find the t-stat at 80* and 2 bathroom fans just constantly running pumping the heat outside....

Next check for leaks, a simple pressure test will make sure you are not just leaking lp into the atmosphere...

As far as the Rinnai boiler and water heater, I wouldnt resize anything until you are sure it is undersized... This could make your problem worse.....

BTW, I don't think you are getting terrible fuel consumption, but I do think you should be getting better for what I have read...

Rinnai tankless running hydro air unit?

@ January 28, 2013 5:38 PM in Rinnai tankless running hydro air unit?

Hello all, this is my first post, but I have read through often. I own an HVAC Mechanical company in RI, and I have been in the trade for longer than I want to admit {hate to show my age here, lol}....

One of my techs recently ran into a service call that stumped him and required me to follow up, the original problem turned out to be a faulty board in a 3ton first co. hydro air unit. {not a big problem, I had 2 instock, so it was back to running that day}. But here is the real issue...

The homeowners are young and very nice kids, they recently had a new heating system replace their oil fired furnace, which is a hydro air unit and heating the water for the coil is a Rinnai condensing tankless water heater.... Which I don't like since it is only set to run at 140 which is just one of the problems... I would love to just replace the rinnai with a gb142 or something that will hang on the wall and run their system correctly but they can not afford that, and they have since finished the basement and there would be no room to throw in a boiler of any kind.... so I am going to have to in one way or another get this to work for them, and I think I have a good idea how, I just want to run it by any other pros that may have experience with this...

The unit is heating the space, but it is costing them a small fortune in propane, because when the heated water retruns from the coil it is too warm and causes the rinnai to modulate down, and as many may know when rinnais mod down to the basement they get very inefficient {something like 45%}.... Plus running 140 through the coil that may be undersized as it is, is causing the unit to run constantly...

OK, here is what I want to do....

Swap out the 007 with a 009 s/s circ {I have4 used ones on the shelf}, then add an aquastat to the return, and a taco sentry 3 way zone valve after the circ in between the supply and return, Im also going to add a psi reducing valve, exp tank, and relief valve since none of which are there currently.... Finally adding a commercial control to the unit to allow 180* water temps...

So my theory is, the rinnai will heat to 180 then circulate through the coil, if the water returns higher than 140 {or where ever I figure on setting the aquastat} it will divert the flow back through the hydro air unit, until finally it return cold enough and the aquastat sends it back through the rinnai to get heated...

I wish I could add a storage tank but there is literally no where it could go....
heres a pic I made up to help explain it http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af107/turbobike1/rinnaiheat_zps346ded83.png

So what do you think, am I on the rite track?
thanks in advance
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