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heatpro02920

heatpro02920

Joined on January 28, 2013

Last Post on April 24, 2014

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all in the flux

@ April 8, 2014 4:34 PM in New Lead Free ball valves

when I first started using the lead free stuff I didnt get leaks but the joints looked sub par, I changed fluxes and va walla, perfect... or kind of perfect..

Brick

@ April 8, 2014 4:32 PM in R- Value

I do .2 per inch, something like you are describing I would do r5 total... Is it exact, no probably not, is it rite enough without being horribly wrong, yah.... With brick it can depend on age, the quality of the seal, ect ect ect, I have seen double wall with an air gap, I have seen everything in that gap from foam to a piece of plywood to nothing but air... Like I said I do .2 for every inch of brick, then add what else is there, you will most likely be under r5 when you are done...

I have never had a property

@ April 8, 2014 1:47 AM in Value of converting oil/steam to modcon gas?

that I couldn't figure a way to vent.. Sure its not as easy as plugging into an existing chimney but nothing is impossible... Use your head and get er' done... I hear a lot of guys say, "how would you vent a tankless and a mod con"? Its easy, I have done it many many times, no complaints and the jobs still made money...

Thats funny you said that

@ April 7, 2014 4:40 PM in Install electric tank

I thought about 3 ways but then you still need an isolation valve on each tank since I 3 way is still on in one direction or the other... With the 6 valves you can use them to shut it down completely incase of service, with 3 ways you cant shut them off all together... plus 3 way ball valves are expensive, I pay $29 for one 3/4 3 way vs $30 for all 6 3/4 std ball valves...

I have tried many different ways to tackle DHW

@ April 7, 2014 4:28 PM in Indirect or Combo Boiler with Recirc DHT?

I just don't see the sense in running heating equipment year round, I don't like tanks {around here if you get 8 years you can count your self very lucky}, I don't see the sense in running hot water 24-7 when we use it for an hour a day, and I have had great luck with tanklesses, happy customers and good results all around... While the initial install can be costly, in 20 years or so when you have to replace it, you can do it yourself, 3 unions, plug it in, and hang it on the wall... I see this is the near future, your boiler breaks, you just plug in a new one...


For recircs I like the mini tank setup, another thing I do is run the recirc line as small as possible and make sure its insulated as well as your hot line where ever the recirc goes... http://www.homedepot.com/p/SharkBite-3-8-in-x-100-ft-Insulated-PEX-Pipe-U855I100/203316939?cm_mmc=shopping-_-googleads-_-pla-_-203316939&skwcid&kwd=&ci_sku=203316939&ci_kw=&ci_gpa=pla&ci_src=17588969

I would do this with colored valve handles..

@ April 7, 2014 7:13 AM in Install electric tank

So the valves that have to be open for the indirect to work would be Blue handled and there would be a blue label on the indirect, and the valves for the hybrid would have yellow handles with a yellow label on the hybrid..

The colored labels would say " to operate hybrid heater in summer months, open all yellow handle valves, shut boiler service switch and turn on hybrid tanks switch...

Now you could do this with a control and 6 electronic valves, but it would cost around $1000 just in materials, lol.. Much better option just to draw a diagram make some labels and trust the homeowner is smart enough to turn a valve {I know its asking a lot}... I honestly would probably take a picture of the valves in each position and have them printed and laminated then hung on each unit... even though its not hard to get, I feel some people may have trouble, lol....

I am so curious about radiant cooling

@ April 6, 2014 9:25 PM in Central air vs mini split?

I have never done it, not very popular around here... where can I go to read more about it...

that would be the idea

@ April 6, 2014 9:20 PM in Install electric tank

Shouldnt be too hard to follow, when the valves are on the the water flows through them, I would simplify it and just shut the not in use tank off...

OK, I found a pic {not a good one}

@ April 6, 2014 8:57 PM in Indirect or Combo Boiler with Recirc DHT?

of a similar install, this was done after the water heater was installed, it was a mess, started with a simple Rinnai install and then ended up wanting recirc, Its a terrible picture, but you see the ss pump and the a-stat in the recirc line, the rinnai unit piped in above the mini tank. So done for a lot less in materials, a lot more simple, just pipe it through and add a circ with a-stat, I used the a-stat from his water old water heater, you can use any aquastat or none, but I prefer the grundfos pump with all the bells and whistles... I like the timer, since I set mine so it doesnt recirc from 10pm to 5 am and then from 8am to 3pm so my recirc only runs around 10 hours a day and the tanks are small, tight, and very well insulated so they have hardly any stand by losses, the low amount of surface area and the small amount of water make them efficient...


Anyway, as you can see you can make it as simple or complicated as you like, I did one with 2 rinnai ru98's, a bosch es8 tank {the on in the pics}, a ss 009 pump on the recirc with an aquastat that was slave to a series of power sensing modules, one on each bathroom light and one in the kitchen, so when the bathroom or kitchen lights were on, the pump ran until the a-stat was satisfied, it was new contruction the home owner was an electrician, it came very nice..

Just a simple tiny water heater

@ April 6, 2014 8:46 PM in Indirect or Combo Boiler with Recirc DHT?

I like the Bosch but I have used others in my systems, the first one I designed was a 6ga rheem I believe... It worked well, any small electric water heater will do it...

I have plugged in kilo watt meters and asked customers about their electric bills, the meter showed about $6 a month to run the tank {I got a different reading every time I did it, lowest was $3 highest was $9} and all the customers I asked about the power usage said they never noticed a difference....

This is the more expensive of my installations, not all of them are done like this, you can do the same thing with out using all of them fittings, I have a picture of it done much simpler, I will look for one...

This shows the grundfos pump {built in a-stat and timer} with the check valve flanges, plus webstone isolation unions and a 3/4 cross tee, ect them parts add up, I believe cross tees alone are $15 or so... Ill find a picture of a simple install I did, I have one in mind, it was a VERY tight budget....

So the pipe going into the right side of the tank is coming from the tanklesses hot line, the one coming straight down through the top goes to the recirc line, and the left {hot} goes to the houses hot water supply.. pretty simple, the center ball valve stays off unless you want to by pass the mini tank...

PS Sorry for the dirty stairs in the picture, I took all of this out of my service truck and stuck it together on the stairs to my garages attic...

what size furnace

@ April 6, 2014 8:22 PM in New install Furnace

whats the cfm on the furnace?

is this house down to the studs?

I wouldnt run a central return, I would run the largest flex duct you can fit for the supplys {minimum of 6" flex} and then run 75-80% to each room for a return, on the opposite side of the room {in other words, 2-6" supplys with an 8" return for that room}... Make sure you are taking outdoor combustion air if this is going in a laundry and seal your returns with ductmate...

you can use airtec mv diffusers with 6" flex...

good point with the fumes, I didnt think of that for dv and pv systems...

@ April 6, 2014 7:56 PM in Install electric tank

I think there is a company that makes an electric aux indirect, others may know the model number?Swei as far as stagnant water goes, its not a huge issue, its only 5-6 months, no sunlight, under pressure kept cold, hot water not drinking, you can flush it drain it once a month or add a tiny bit of bleach if you like... I guess you could also drain it, but I would rather just keep it full...But in case you are worried I re designed it a bit, lolthis will make it so cold water flows through the tank not being used first then goes into the hot tank and onto the fixtures, no more stagnant issue, there are 5 different ways to pipe this, I would use some webstone purge tees and make it pretty simple, but you get the idea from my key and picture.. the thin lines that cross the pipes do not tap into the pipe they are crossing, and each number is a valve... just did it quick, you can do it a bunch of different ways... this drawing shows reverse flowing one tank but you can flow them both the correct way with the same amount of valves...

Mini tank

@ April 6, 2014 6:36 PM in Indirect or Combo Boiler with Recirc DHT?

Its not really counter productive to have the mini tank for recirc, it actually works very very well, I have done enough of them to be confident its the way to go.... Including my own house...
I have one going in this week, I actually build them as a kit at the shop and then just bring them to the site ready to install, if you like I can post a picture of the one sitting in m truck rite now... The tanks hardly use any power, they literally just run enough to make up for the heatloss of your recirc loop... They dont even run on startup since you can just run the rinnai to fill it with hot water, and every time you run the hot water it fills the tank... its a really nice setup, and when you use the rite parts it can be very convenient...

Let me know and Ill post a pic of what it looks like...

My choice would be...

@ April 6, 2014 3:03 PM in Central air vs mini split?

Gas fired furnaces with case coils, heat pump/cool condensers and mod/con powered radiant flooring and either a smart tank or a tankless water heater... Cost wise this is a pretty nice system...
you use the heatpumps in the shoulder seasons then the mod con radiant when the heatpumps get inefficient. Install case coils ontop of a decent variable speed 95%+ gas furnaces and configure the controls to use the furnaces if your radiant can't keep up or is out of service...

That system works well and the cost of a furnace and coil vs a a/c air handler is not much. Now If no expense is spared, I would install a couple waterfurnace series 7 units with a series 5 unit for water, variable speed pumps, monitoring system, ect ect ect... believe it or not with a 30 year mortgage you will save a ton of money if you can roll it in...

As far as mini splits and unico type systems go, no thank you, not in my home....

Rite now, my house is 4300 sq ft and we used a coal furnace to heat this year, I have a mod con and hydro air units, with heat pumps, ect... BUT this year I was trying out the coal and normally in heatpumps and running the propane we would have spent $6000 or so this season, but with coal we spent under $1500.... {tankless propane DHW with a hybrid used in the warm months...} My house is my frankenstien testing ground...

heres a similar drawing..

@ April 6, 2014 11:13 AM in Install electric tank

Like I said with the rebates on hybrids it can make sense, some of the benefits are..
annual savings, figure out you non heating month fuel usage and then subtract the amount it costs to run the hybrid unit.. if you use 30 gallons of oil a month in the non heating months that can be around $120 a hybrid can run for around $120 for the entire 6 month off season!!!
plus the above mentioned cold air benefits, less wear and tear on your heating equipment, ect.... It can be a good move...

the install is simple, run your power, tee into hot and cold with isolation valves, pipe out the condensate, and turn it on and the boiler off...

I have been doing this quite often lately...

@ April 6, 2014 10:40 AM in Install electric tank

With the rebates on hybrid water heaters available it can make sense... Plus with a hybrid water heater the bi-roduct is cold dehumidified air, so it can lower your cooling bill and or make you basement more comfortable... I have had customers tell me they no longer have to run dehumidifiers in the summer... Plus hybrids are very inexpensive to run...

I know the rebates we have here with the tax credits pay for 75% of the installation..

I will look for a drawing I have when I get back to my office and on a real computer...

Sounds like it may be a service issue..

@ April 6, 2014 10:33 AM in What Are The Symptoms?

You are lucky to get 8 years out of that tank, at almost 15 years you are very lucky.... You may just need a service, I have serviced gas water heaters, clean the chamber, burner assembly, flue passages, flush and circulate vinegar solution, but the service sometimes costs a good portion of what a new tank will cost... http://www.homedepot.com/p/Rheem-Performance-40-gal-Short-6-Year-36-000-BTU-Natural-Gas-Water-Heater-XG40S06EC36U0/204298977 ....

With the age of your tank, I would be replacing it, I have customers that change their tank every 10 years whether it needs it or not, just not to have to clean up a leak..

its going to take me a week to read that topic

@ April 6, 2014 9:36 AM in Value of converting oil/steam to modcon gas?

I am not saying that we shouldn't talk about steam, and while my business is the opposite as yours something like 20% steam.. ALthough this year seems to be a lot of steam repair and new steam boilers, very odd actually, I am not sure if it has anything to do with the hard winter we had, but I have a bunch of steam scheduled...

I install and repair steam, but for the most part I try to change it to something different when it makes sense... Some times it does sometimes it doesn't, this is where I and my customers hope I have the common sense to know the difference...

picture?

@ April 6, 2014 9:25 AM in American Standard boiler

Oil or gas? sounds like oil, for the input/output, just do the math, fire rate and efficiency.

I hate to see that 12 on there

@ April 4, 2014 10:36 PM in Rinnai tankless woes

Its rare for thee units to go down... I have never seen a bad board in a Rinnai unit, I have heard of them being replaced, but I personally never came across one, and I have seen them soaking wet...

Propane units can need a cleaning here and there {mostly if they are being used for heat or have close deltas for long periods of time}, but for the most part the units are stable and reliable... Time will tell, they are getting more and more units out there so more issues will arise I am sure, but so far so good...

where is the noise coming from

@ April 4, 2014 10:30 PM in Cast Iron boiler trouble

what kind of boiler- gas oil brand model?????

When I size a boiler with dhw

@ April 4, 2014 10:24 PM in Indirect or Combo Boiler with Recirc DHT?

I size the boiler for the dwellings heatloss on a design day {with modulating burners I try to match the smallest load for the turn down}, for the dhw sizing, measure your needs in gpm and then size the dhw tank for a little more than that amount with the boilers priority output.. I use smart tanks and they tend to be spec'd for large amounts of input btu's....
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