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cyrus_pinkney

cyrus_pinkney

Joined on April 26, 2013

Last Post on October 27, 2013

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SUCCESS!!!!!

@ October 27, 2013 10:18 PM in New setup mockup

We have heat!!!!

Thank you all for your generous knowledge and sharing your opinions throughout this process. I realize I probably overthought a lot of this, but I'm happy that in the end it is up and running. As @R Mannino told me, sometimes you just have to do it to know it works. Thanks again Ron.

I'll share some photos once I get some time (and clean up some of the non-professional looking elements).

like this?

@ October 25, 2013 4:30 PM in Wiring Burnham Alliance Indirect to Burnham Alpine

@ZMan

Thanks for the reply. Is my attached image what you mean?

The Burnham manual shows 3-wire zone valves, but does indicate (see attached) that sometimes there is cross phasing, but there is a solution for it.

Wiring Burnham Alliance Indirect to Burnham Alpine

@ October 25, 2013 12:13 PM in Wiring Burnham Alliance Indirect to Burnham Alpine

Hey all, just prepping for my install and figuring out some of the wiring.

Recap (seen here also) I am installing a wall-mount Burnham Alpine to a single zone (for now) and also installing a Burnham Alliance indirect to supply the home. The indirect is not wired as a zone, but it's own pump.

Most of it the wiring seems simple (I think) but when I get to the indirect to the boiler, I'm a little confused. I've attached a sketch of what I think my wiring setup will be, without connecting the indirect. I was under the assumption that I wire the boiler, which feeds the pump(s) power. The zone valve from my zone and the aquastat from the indirect let the boiler know when there is a call for heat. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

If that's the case, I am confused as to why that Burnham's Alliance manual is showing a line feeding the indirect with power. Shouldn't the boiler itself instruct the pump to kick on when the aquastat calls for heat from the indirect?

Could someone instruct me how to wire this indirect. T.I.A.

thanks R Mannino

@ October 21, 2013 9:55 PM in New setup mockup

you certainly have that 4'x8' install down to a science!

thanks for the help

@ October 20, 2013 9:51 PM in New setup mockup

For all those who have been dropping in and helping, I just wanted to share my appreciation once again. I have ordered my boiler and its applicable components and plan on doing my install this weekend. I have updated my final design mock-up and it can be seen here --- http://youtu.be/cH-x5UsCuFA

It turns out I underestimated how much space I do have to complete the install. I've seen far tighter installs, and some like @R Maninno are near magicians when making them fit into really tight quarters. I have the benefit of a some space, allowing me to follow Burnham's specs very closely, the only difference being the substitution of a Spirovent instead of an air scoop.

For clarity, I have not included the indirect tank in the video. Also, the orange/red piping is 1-1/4" copper, the copper/pink is 1" copper, and the blue is 1/2" copper.

I will post some photos once I get her up and running...god willing. Wish me luck!

single mono-flo tee

@ October 18, 2013 9:25 AM in head loss for mono-flo

I guess we can both breath easy Rich, there is a single mono-flo tee for each radiator. The funny thing is, I believe the system was installed backwards, or at least the tees are. I have only owned the home through a half a winter, so I don't know how well it's performed. After dismantling the boiler I realized that the pump (which I have been under the impression is almost always on the return) is a Dayton 5GD80. If the pump is indeed on the return, then the tees are with the pump, meaning the arrows on the mono-flo tees point AWAY from the pump. Is it possible that all of these tees could be installed incorrectly? Or is it possible that the pump is on the feed? It's a big ol' oil-fired American Standard, if that makes any difference.

My question now, going forward, should I pipe it correctly and have my feed going in the direction of flow with the tees towards the return on the boiler? I fear that after 50+ years of the water running in one direction, if I reverse it, I may screw something else up.

how is the tee measured?

@ October 17, 2013 10:17 AM in head loss for mono-flo

@Rich

thanks for the input. This might be a ridiculous question, but the tees I have on my system all come off a 1" loop and feed up to the radiators with 1/2". Does the fact that the tee feeds into 1/2" matter?

gotcha

@ October 16, 2013 8:28 PM in head loss for mono-flo

alright, I'll use those pumps for both, then.

professional indeed

@ October 16, 2013 8:23 PM in New setup mockup

those are helpful, but I'm missing some information, a few more angles would help me tremendously. I don't think you have to be as close to the setup, just a bit closer than Ron was and a little back from your second (below) photo so I could see how they all tie together. Thanks so much. If you wanted to PM me with the photos, I don't mind.

I may be more comfortable with the TriangleTube setup, it seems a lot more clearer in the manual and their interface seems to be much more user friendly. I just can't build it until I see how it's been done on your installation, I'm just going to try to copy it component for component.

should've just asked you directly

@ October 16, 2013 8:17 PM in head loss for mono-flo

@R Maninno strikes again!

I should've just asked you directly, but thanks for the answer. The original loop is still in tact, but it appears that they tee off for 2 baseboards in the basement, but the entire house is on one zone.

Should I be using the Grundfos UPS15-58 for both pumps in my setup?

head loss for mono-flo

@ October 16, 2013 4:05 PM in head loss for mono-flo

I am attempting to calculate my feet of head to decide whether or not I need to use a P/S system for my new boiler setup. I have never calculated it for a mono-flo type of piping layout. I am hoping some of you fine people could assist me in this.

I have a single loop (for now) serving my entire home (see plan attached and here). Do I calculate the entire system as a single number or should I only calculate the longest half of the loop?

I am contemplating installing radiant heat in the basement and am wondering if that will impact whether I'll need P/S also.

As always, thank you.

I'd appreciate additional photos

@ October 16, 2013 2:28 PM in New setup mockup

@Stekay

Thanks for the offer, I'd love to have a few more shots of the setup. Ron was kind enough to share some, but if you have others, I'd love to see them. The more the merrier, as I can now have another option for a setup other than the Burnham and the Viessmann. Ron explained his shot was from his phone, so it's a bit blurry, but if you were to share a few that were higher res, it would help me ton.

fill valve sounds like an idea

@ October 16, 2013 12:08 PM in New setup mockup

@hot rod

great suggestion, thanks

merge

@ October 16, 2013 2:41 AM in new mod/con w/indirect question mockup

admins, I would love if you could merge this thread with the other that I started on "THE MAIN WALL"

For those following at home, I have used @R Mannino's fine work and copied essentially his layout, including switching from an Burnham Alpine to a Viessmann Vitodens 100.

A video of it can be seen here: http://youtu.be/zBf6-09JTiA
and still shots can be seen here: http://goo.gl/6k59AL

Thank you for the pointers again Ron, you've been a tremendous help and I hope you don't mind me letting others know. Thanks to anyone else who might want to chime it.

copycat

@ October 16, 2013 2:39 AM in New setup mockup

For those following at home, I have used @R Mannino's fine work and copied essentially his layout, including switching from an Burnham Alpine to a Viessmann Vitodens 100.

A video of it can be seen here: http://youtu.be/zBf6-09JTiA
and still shots can be seen here: http://goo.gl/6k59AL

Thank you for the pointers again Ron, you've been a tremendous help and I hope you don't mind me letting others know. Thanks to anyone else who might want to chime it.

Lochinvar setup

@ October 15, 2013 6:48 PM in New setup mockup

@Zman

your description indicates I should look at page 45 (attached) for a setup that eliminates the primary/secondary and also eliminates zone valves. However looking at page 45, I'm seeing zone valves and is titled "Single Boiler - Full Flow - Single Temperature - Zone with Zone Valves - DHW Priority"

If you could be so kind, could you please clarify, or maybe I'm just reading it incorrectly.

thanks

@ October 15, 2013 5:16 PM in new mod/con w/indirect question mockup

@Zman

You should size your expansion tank for all the water on the boiler side, including the boiler water in the indirect.


I will do so, thanks

Chris is suggesting individual TRV controls on the radiators, The Grundfos "Alpha" is nice delta p ecm circulator. Trv's are a nice option.

ahh, I am familiar with those valves. Unfortunately I do not have the time (nor the money) to remoe all my existing valves for each of my rads

thank you all

@ October 15, 2013 5:09 PM in New setup mockup

@Alan (California Radiant) Forbes
1) install a bypass around your fill valve for power purging.

2) I see that you want to install purge valves at the end of your returns. An easier way is to install a purge assembly. The piping is: boiler-hose bibb-ball valve-air eliminator with fill valve assembly-pump. You connect a hose to the hose bibb, close the ball valve, open the bypass around your fill valve and open one zone at a time. It purges everything; pumps, radiators, indirect, boiler.


excellent suggestion and I will do exactly that. eliminating air is a concern of mine, I thought adding more valves would handle it, but it seems your suggestion does just that.

@R Mannino
Everyone wants the heating system to take up the least amount of space.


Man that's tight, very well done. Do you have any closer shots of this setup? Maybe I can rebuild my mock-up similar to yours by copying it...if you don't mind, that is.

@Zman
The alpine has a very high head loss. because of the head loss you have to pipe your system primary secondary and use large circulators. If you go with a firetube boiler like the Lochinvar WHN 85, you won't need primary/secondary.


I don't have a real hard answer as to why Burnham, other than a few co-workers had their newly built homes with Burnhams installed. They've been satisfied, but I am open to changing if the Lochinvar runs more efficient. I think I may be back to the drawing table

Indirect Hot Water expansion

@ October 15, 2013 10:50 AM in new mod/con w/indirect question mockup

I am wondering if I need a separate expansion tank for my indirect hot water heater in addition to the expansion tank I have shown on my system? Either that, or do I upsize the expansion tank to satisfy both the heating system and the hot water?

SketchUp

@ October 14, 2013 3:09 PM in new mod/con w/indirect question mockup

The software is only SketchUp and there is a free version. I built or scaled a lot of the components to meet the cut sheets of the parts I plan on purchasing, but there is a 3D warehouse you can download from. Google used to own SketchUp but I believe it was recently sold off to this company called Trimble. You can download a free, limited version at http://www.sketchup.com/

Regarding my design. Thanks for the input. I'm an architect by trade and not a hydronic engineer. Would you mind providing a little more insight into what you cited? I planned on adding radiant heat for the basement (see plans in o.p.) if that makes any difference in your thoughts. Is my physical design logical? What exactly is an "alpha"? Thank you again for your insight.

new mod/con w/indirect question mockup

@ October 14, 2013 9:13 AM in new mod/con w/indirect question mockup

sorry for the double post, but I just realized I should have posted here; admins may delete the original on the main wall

Hello all, it's me again.

I know some of you are probably tired of hearing about my intentions instead of actions, but I am just about to do the install. I have designed my hopeful setup in a 3D modeling software to help me better visualize how it will all be put together and assist with assembly. I have uploaded a video of an overview of the setup (seen here) and added a few of the screen caps to this post, also see this link for better resolution. Due to tight quarters, I had to make the most of what I had and hopefully you friendly and knowledgeable folks can point out a few easier or more efficient way to do this. For clarity, the copper/pink is all 1" copper line, while the blue is either 3/4 or 1/2". Since Burnham supplies the boiler loop pump, I am really only waiting on the sizing of the pump for the HWH and the system pump, but they're very close in physical sizing that I could mock them up in my model. Here's a link to the higher resolution mockups and plans here.

Refresher: replacing oil-fired combi boiler, cast iron recessed rads on main living floor, cast iron bases in basement, currently all on one zone, combined single loop. Installing new Burnham Alpine 080 w/50gal indirect. Currently setup for single zone, I will be adding the indirect tank and eventually another zone or 2. Roughly 72K heat loss calc, with poor shell criteria (slider windows, poor insulation in attic, etc.), hopeful to fix that over time. Northeastern NJ, see floor plans also attached.

I have followed Burnham's "Near Boiler Piping - Heating Plus Indirect Water Heater" schematic from the Alpine manual, and I think I have all of their specified components included in my mockup. In a previous thread, I had used an example that an HVAC specialist and shown me, but using @BadgerBoilerMN's criticism of overpumping, I decided to go with a system circulator with zone valves as opposed to pumps for each zone (especially since I currently will only have a single zone). I've shown a few Webstone flanges and other Webstone valves since I'm tight on space; while they're not price friendly, they do save me on valuable space.

As always, your comments and criticisms are welcome.

New setup mockup

@ October 13, 2013 10:59 PM in New setup mockup

Hello all, it's me again.

I know some of you are probably tired of hearing about my intentions instead of actions, but I am just about to do the install. I have designed my hopeful setup in a 3D modeling software to help me better visualize how it will all be put together and assist with assembly. I have uploaded a video of an overview of the setup (seen here) and added a few of the screen caps to this post, also see this link for better resolution. Due to tight quarters, I had to make the most of what I had and hopefully you friendly and knowledgeable folks can point out a few easier or more efficient way to do this. For clarity, the copper/pink is all 1" copper line, while the blue is either 3/4 or 1/2". Since Burnham supplies the boiler loop pump, I am really only waiting on the sizing of the pump for the HWH and the system pump, but they're very close in physical sizing that I could mock them up in my model. Here's a link to the higher resolution mockups and plans here.

Refresher: replacing oil-fired combi boiler, cast iron recessed rads on main living floor, cast iron bases in basement, currently all on one zone, combined single loop. Installing new Burnham Alpine 080 w/50gal indirect. Currently setup for single zone, I will be adding the indirect tank and eventually another zone or 2. Roughly 72K heat loss calc, with poor shell criteria (slider windows, poor insulation in attic, etc.), hopeful to fix that over time. Northeastern NJ, see floor plans also attached.

I have followed Burnham's "Near Boiler Piping - Heating Plus Indirect Water Heater" schematic from the Alpine manual, and I think I have all of their specified components included in my mockup. In a previous thread, I had used an example that an HVAC specialist and shown me, but using @BadgerBoilerMN's criticism of overpumping, I decided to go with a system circulator with zone valves as opposed to pumps for each zone (especially since I currently will only have a single zone). I've shown a few Webstone flanges and other Webstone valves since I'm tight on space; while they're not price friendly, they do save me on valuable space.

As always, your comments and criticisms are welcome.
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