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Joined on December 21, 2003

Last Post on March 2, 2010

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Gravity system below heat source

@ March 2, 2010 2:11 AM in Gravity system below heat source

Got a job coming up were the client wants the system piped gravity as he does not want to depend on power to run a pump. Got ideas of going off grid.
The system used old CI rads mounted on walls below the heat source. We can have to  run the return pipe back up inside the wall from the rads because of the concrete floor and doorways are between the rads.
He is using a wood stove with a 20Kw wetback which will have to be on a indirect system.
I intend to drop a loop in the return pipe from the bottom of the rad before it goes back up again. And because it's a uncontrolled heat source I will be using copper piping. 1" headers with 3/4" drppers. to the rads.
Any advise on making sure it's going to work?

Oxygen Barrier

@ August 31, 2008 4:39 PM in Oxygen Barrier Pipe

This is not actually my problem just that another tradesman tells me he using ordinary plumbing pipe with no barrier and I've alway used barrier, Funny enough the pipe he uses is more expensive than the pipe I use, I was wanting scientific answers as to why use barrier.

Rule of the thumb

@ August 29, 2008 12:36 AM in Anyone heard this rule of thumb?

Do not confuse static pressure with circulating pressure, Because the water is filled in a closed loop the static pressure will be whats required to fill the system up to the very top. Then the pressure on the both sides of the pump when off will be the same. However the pressure the pump generates to make the water circulate will be whats required to make the water circulate, The circulating pressure will be the difference in pressure on both sides of the pump ignoring the static head pressure. I've run into consultant engineers who can't seem to grasp this concept.

Oxygen Barrier.

@ August 28, 2008 4:00 AM in Oxygen Barrier Pipe

Can anyone point in the right direction over oxygen barrier requirements, Another tradesman claims he uses ordinary plastic pipe in the underfloor piping and to advoid oxygen infillation he 'pressurises the pipe. I always understood the water pressure was imaterial as the oxygen gets in regardless of water pressure. Can anyone point me to some definitive studies on this.

Pilot safety

@ August 28, 2008 3:51 AM in Millivolt Gas valve questions

Are you sure the thermopile doesn't also ack as a safety cut off. Do you have to hold the valve in for 30+ seconds to hold the pilot before it will hold in on it;s own? I know several systems were the thermopile does this. and also supplies power to open and close the main gas on thermostat call?

Robertshaw Valve.

@ January 6, 2007 7:40 PM in Robert Shaw 7000 Series Gas Valve Help

It is a thermopile. A thermocouple only puts out about 30-40 MV A thermopile puts out up 750 MV A t/p is a multicollection of thermocouples bundled together to be able to produce the higher voltage. They work on the same principle, A thermopile can pull the gas valve open while a thermocouple can only just hold the valve open which why you have to hold the gas knob down after lighting the pilot to allow it time to generate enough voltage to hold the valve. With this valve you still have to hold the knob down to get the pilot to stay alight but once the pilot is going the main flame is controlled by the thermostat. Sometimes the T/P will generate enough juice to hold the pilot in but as soon as the thermostat calls for main flame the voltage falls away and you can lose the pilot as well as main flame. With that 750Mv output it points towards a faulty valve. Make sure the connection of the T/P into the valve is a good and tight connection.

Copper Rad

@ January 6, 2007 1:55 AM in Hand-Crafted Copper Radiator

Beautiful workmanship. Will need to be lacquered to stop it going discoloured though, Unless you want to be continuly polishing it.

robertshaw valve

@ January 6, 2007 1:48 AM in Robert Shaw 7000 Series Gas Valve Help

I had one once and what I found was that it's not the voltage open end that counts but the voltage while in circuit with the solenoid that counts, If it drops quite a lot then thats an indication, I use an old solenoid to test termocouple to see how good the couple is. But on a thermopile its a bit harded to do that you really have to take a reading on the Tp and Thtp terminals on the valve while its all connected.

Gas smell

@ December 21, 2006 3:42 AM in faint gas smell, only when boiler runs

I had this problem a few years ago, Found the union after the gas valve was leaking hence the smell only when the burner was going. A 10 second tighten of the union with a wrench fixed it. Spray the fittings after the gas valves with a soap mixture may show it up.

realy cold weather

@ December 19, 2006 10:38 PM in Stapleups part2

I'm not sure what you call really cold weather, Our minimum temperature (over night)would be around -5 degs cent(about 25 deg F)The average temp would be around 5 deg cent (40 deg F) We can get snow but not very often although this year was the worse for a long long time, Cause a lot of problems had power wires down farms without power for up to 3 weeks.They keep telling us about gobal warming that if you believe that. If you run the piping perpendicular to the joist wouldn't you be able to put the fins closer together? Thanks to all those who replied to my request for information and help, Very much appreciated.


@ December 18, 2006 3:22 AM in Stapleups part2

Will. Oh, I see you have drilled though the joist and fed the pipe though and then to put the fins on after you have the pipe installed. Just how far down for the floor do you drill the holes and how far down from the pipe do you have the insulation? How close together do you have the pipes? Do the fins almost touch? I notice the floor appears to be some sort of particle board.

Ultria fin

@ December 17, 2006 10:51 PM in Stapleups part2

By the diagram on the It appears that the tubing runs across the joist rather than within the joists? Just how do you suspend the piping just below the floor and how far apart do you put the brackets. Do you get more heat from this method than straight staple ups? Thanks.

Stapleups part 2

@ December 16, 2006 11:26 PM in Stapleups part2

Thanks for the advise so far I really appreciate this. Has any one any experience of using Ultra fin floor transfer plates by Jupiter heating. I'm a bit puzzled as to how these work. Appears that the pipe with the plates are fasten to the underside of the joists but how is the fibreglass insulation held up. Is the fibreglass suspended some how? Do they have any problems with rats or mice getting in the fibreglass, I did an radiator installation about 4 years ago on a house which had fibreglass held up in the joists by wirenetting fasten to the under side of the joists but the rats had gotten into it and pooded and peed in the fibreglass. we had to pull it out and get Polystyrene ( installed instead. It was a rotten job pulling it out. I see some claim 40-50 btus sq ft How much does the carpet cut back the heating effect?

R22 heat pump

@ December 11, 2006 2:54 AM in Water by heated heat pump

A Chinese heat pump using R22 claims to be able to heat water to 65 deg cent (149 deg F)While it must be a fairly high head pressure is there any way one can get a higher temperature using a different refrigerant at a lower head pressure?

@ December 11, 2006 2:19 AM in Stapleups

I've been involved in the heating trade for over 40yrs, 20 of them self employed, Mainly on radiator systems,Hot air furnaces,steam boilers gas fitting. With a few in concrete under floor radiant installations. But one system I've never been involved in is a staple ups. I've looked at every site/article I can find on the search engines from Radiantec, to John Siegenthaler and while they all proclaim how good it works, I'm left wondering if it really works as good as they say. The old saying still holds true there is nothing like hearing it from the horses mouth. You guys who have use staple ups how well did it work any tips for a newcomer.


@ December 11, 2006 1:54 AM in China crap

Perhaps the Chinese have learned what the Japanese taught the world years ago, That they may have lost the 2nd world war but have won by Trade and economics, Just history repeating itself again. Who took over the auto world? the 2 countries which lost the war Germany and Japan. China doesn't want to go to war but as they learn the lesson The Japanese taught them that by trade they can win the war. The US is like most other western countries up to their eye balls in debt, Remember if you owe some one money are you really your own boss? Make no mistake I don't like the Chinese junk any more than anyone else but if you don't use it some one else will.

Limit operaing.

@ November 14, 2006 2:10 AM in one for the gurus

Zeke, Tim gave you a good clue, Does the limit only operate AFTER the furnace has been running and shuts down, Could sound like the fan is not running long enough to get rid of the residual heat before shutting off, should shut off at about 90 degs.

@ October 30, 2006 11:50 PM in Fly Ash

Boy, you would have to get a hellva lot of flies to make much ash wouldn't you? I'd imagine a fly when burn would make much ash.

@ October 28, 2006 9:36 PM in Best digital manometer

I imported a Dwyer 475 Mark 111 from the US several years ago and have it sitting in front of me now, Problem I found with it is goes though batteries like they're going out of fashion, Every time I picked it up I'd have to put a new battery in it. Now have a DHI PPC3 manometer and it onlt needs a new battery every few months.

Silfossing refrigeration tubing.

@ August 25, 2006 7:36 AM in Brazing - How to

What every one has forgotten to say is when you really do get the hang of it don't forget to have nitogen flowing though the tubing as you silfos it to stop oxydisation of the inside of the pipe, compressors don't like flakes of that stuff. Remember with silfos the pipe melts the rod NOT the flame the flame heats the pipe not the rod.


@ August 14, 2006 1:13 AM in Yer

Hi, Thank you very much I really appreciate that,Thats great Thanks again.

Just a request

@ August 13, 2006 4:28 AM in Yer

Has anyone got those clips on the tugboat that went under the bridge after getting caught bring the barge down to the bridge?? I used to have this and lost it when my puter got reformatted. I'd love to have it back again Thanks
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