Heating Help

Mitz sizing thoughts

@ May 23, 2013 8:14 AM in Mitz sizing thoughts

It.s been a while since i posted so here we go.Have a custermer who is at best difficult and always takes about 2 years to decide .Well he's finally decided to add the final mitz invertor heat pumps to the last 2 bedrooms .The line set are difficult and very tight being it is a sort of dutch colonial home with alot of windows  .I had original wanted to do a unico except the price was to high for a all at once job so he opted for mitz .The question i have am i going over board using a 9000 btu indoor instead of a 6000 it ends up being same outdoor condensor either way i think a 20. the issue i have is these units are going into 2 bed rooms on second floor with nothing much on the first floor for ac and a finished attic above .I know the 6000 would do it easy but i know the HO and his games and those 2 bed room doors will never be closed due to him trying to cool the first floor with the cold air drops dealo or at least he thinks .The price between the 6 to 9 is nothing and makes no difference being the outdoor is the same for both as strange as it sounds .I guess i am getting paranoid and getting old .As for cost in my mind it would have been cheaper and the whole  home would have been ac ed if he went with the unico but like they say you can bring the horse to water but can't make him drink.Thanks for any input peace and good luck clammy

buderus st150

@ May 17, 2013 6:50 AM in Longest lasting indirects

Nice to see you post ron ,i like the buderus st150 i have a bunch out there and have only had 1 failure and it was the HO fault for not having the electric anode kit replaced when it stopped working aside from that one going i have not replaced any others .I believe the oldest installed is about 13 to 14 years which is not to bad as for cost effetiveness at least in my book.I stay away from those traingle tube tank in tank indirects mainly due to the hi chlorides alot of supply house in my area will not even warranty them and most of my plumbing buddies refuse to due the warranty jobs  they state it tough to get them covered andf reburesed.I have put in the smaller st120 and have had no promblems with them except i love that rear piping connections on the ST line.peace and good luck clammy

Firebird oil fired any body

@ April 26, 2013 6:43 AM in Firebird oil fired any body

Just had a buddy asking me about these boiler seems to be out of ireland ,he had sent one of his tech to a semimar ,I did a search on the net and did not find much about the heat exchanger except they are using a2 stage reillo and i could not find any piping details but i would except with the low water content it would require p/s piping unless using a3 way is factory install .I guess the supply house he deals with are pushing them peace and good luck clammy

aside from feed location

@ April 24, 2013 6:40 AM in What's Wrong

How about some proper supports but i guess that is not taught at the big v training .Even when the best stuff is installed i do believe that it has to be support properly including the gas line but i gather when installing the best boiler in the world it does not need to be .Not to be a hole but how come i never see any one installing flow chk on the feed and return of the indirect  i guess no one has ever noticed the thermal migration espically when your heating side is low temp and your domestic holds 140 water .Just stirring the pot peace and good luck clammy .ps don't take this as a poke at the big V it ain't the boilers fault it's the quality of worlmanship and mech savy .

hogsfer max 14 multi fuel

@ March 30, 2013 8:12 AM in hogsfer max 14 multi fuel

Just went last nite and helped a buddy do a cleaning on a 1980 hogsfer max 15 combi  wood coal /oil hot water boiler .The oil burner/under ground tank  was recently removed and replaced with a mid co ecomite 200 .Of courde a amazing conversion job at best about 40 ft of 3/4 ward flex ,no gas rated dual  swing  barometric damper ,no over temp sensor on flue aside from not cleaning the boiler either theres no combustion air either.Just wonder if anyone has any info on these units there was not litertue for any thing .This unit will be replaced being the HO has no plans to burn wood and i would think it would be quite expensive to operate being we had it running for about a hour and a half and the temp was only up to about 120 .The unit also has a thermostaic return valve which must have a siphon tube in it being both supply and return are  piped out of it ,this unit also produces domestic hot water and used a triple aquastat relay using the low limit to control circulator ,the only info  the unit aside from the name was a20 kw rating and a 380 kilo weight .The wood fire box is small and the  thermostaic draft controller arm is also broken also there is no dump zone for over temp but i would image that if the draft controller for the solid fuel side was worken it would smother the fire i would guess ,  and before we left i did do a Combustion anzy that mid co was very touchy on air shutter adjustment but was very quite but again the air adjust sucked just tightening the set screws would throw the burners numbers way off what aPOS in that respect other wise not bad  peace and good luck clammy

I and O manual

@ March 26, 2013 7:14 AM in saving money on gas

When asked to look at steam boilers that are improperly piped and vented and the HO is complaining about high fuel bills i always bring a copy of the manafactures suggested near boiler piping .I then go over the system and check what they have to how it should be .I then make the suggestions as to what should be done and give them an estimated cost and  that is it .After being in this game for as long as i have been i have really stopped letting custermers waste my time it becomes totally unfair to the contractor and in my eyes just plan rude i  throw them back to the sea and let some one else rip then off and deal with there wishie washie crap .Been there done that if i hear oh yeah we are moving in a few years one more time i will jump .Don't let the cheap skates beat ya down just learn to grind em down.Just remenber to be able to prove why it should be repipe just what is the existing exiting velocity the way it is piped and what it will be when re piped and properly vented after all that just try not to waste more time then what will be returned ,for free you can work any place and every where and another addadge there is a reason those with huge homes and lots of coin got that way so don,t waste to much time on them they usually will never part nor pay the real price for any thin and usually that is why there systems look the way they do .Peace and good luck clammy 

thanks for the inputs

@ March 24, 2013 3:06 PM in copper press fitting question

i guess all the press fittings are the future just sad that it seems that with all these new products alot of those who are using them did not posses the other skills i thought where required to be a better then average fitter .But being time is money and most of what we all do is hidden in cielings and walls who cares it won't be seen till it fails or leaks .I can say for myself that i highly doubt i will be affording to buy the required crimp tools unless i can pass the materal and tools cost directly to my custermers which in these times is extremely funny almost a extremely bad joke ha ha ,for the unseeable future i will be cleaning fluxing n soldering my jobs as i have for close to 30 years ,As for all the fitting and stuff avaiable for crimp stuff it s great but just like all the great hydronic stuff i saw in germany close to 20 years ago i am finally seeing here. to bad it s most of the old out dated crap from europe and for the larger part over priced and usually slightly hard to get and if a promblem occurs and  warranty needed, i just toss it buy another one out of pocket make the custermer happy and  theres progress for you  .The more i see this stuff installed the more i see what seems a unskilled work force tossing it in and a guy in the office racking in the cash while his 10 dollars an hour day worker tosses it in .With all the advancements in the heating and ac fields i would guess quality will always take the back seat to sales and profit plus most of this stuff don,t matter its what can be seen like paver drive ways and 200 grand kitchens not that stupid heating or cooling system.I think of this stuff as a advancement in one crawl and a step back for quality and skill set it does hang it self also  .Peace and good luck and by the way still vertical even though some would like it the other way   clammy

copper press fitting question

@ March 22, 2013 6:40 AM in copper press fitting question

I see alot of press fittings being used on some service calls i do and most of the time it is being used on stuff i feel could have very eaisly been soldered but what ever but what i have noticed is on most the fitting and pipe looks to be completrly squared when pressed, just wonder how this would effect flow espically since most of these repairs where done on heating systems.On a side note does a green ring around the outside of the bell of the fitting constuite a leak .Just wondering ,i can understand the time savings but i basically i  think it looks like crap and is a nightmare when you have to do repairs or replacement of piping near this stuff ,i guess i just don,t see the advantage exsept for the speed thing and the extra costs between installation equiptment and materal just don.t add up but it seems to be very popular w the flat rate guys and there south american workers ,i guess the lower pay scale and higher hourly rate offsets the materal cost and call backs .Sorry for the rant but it gets sad cutting this crap out and tossing it just because you have to change a prv and backflow not bad scrap through.Peace and good luck clammy

triangle tube

@ March 2, 2013 7:27 AM in Multiple temps with mod con H. E. Boiler

Try triangle tube prestige solo with the trimax controller ,fire tube design and set up for 2 seperate reset curves w outdoor reset .installed one with radiant and baseboard worked out very nice .Run  at radaint temps until secondary stage kicks in and then runs at higer temp reset curve  when higher temp calls it run at that temp ,you still needed mixing valves on the radiant but nice boiler with a good 2 temp curve built in .peace and good luck clammy

backflow n chk

@ February 25, 2013 7:52 AM in Feed water check valve:

As of recently we have not had town or city  inspectors say any thing but on our commerical jobs we have been told to install a check valve and  a backflow usually by the insurance company (commerical ) and not by the inspectors  a watts 9d is suffecient .I believe it is in the residental codes but rarely have inspectors say boo but we install a chk and 9d on all jobs where residental or commerical .It seems around here the inspectors rarely fail much unless they are new to the job and usually it is just a show of authority ,power and to make contractor return to go over things so they can make even less money .most of the time the whole permit inspection thing is a money grab by the towns and really ensure the custermer of just about nothing being they have no responcablity for anything including mis installed heating systems .Sorry if it sounds like a rant it may be peace and good luck clammy

older boiler and losing water

@ February 23, 2013 5:28 AM in Losing all the water in steam/oil boiler every day - changed return lines - still losing water

After all the regular suspects are ruled out  ie buried returns and holes  above the water line which is checked by flooding the boiler to the top and visually checking for leaks and leaking valves ,raditor and main vents there is usually only one other suspect which is usually the hardest to find due to its location and this is very true which older dry base boiler which sat on a cast iron box or fire brick .I have ran into this twice and the leak was the old push nipple on the water side  which only leaked durning firing and ran unseen into the concrete from inside the fire box very hard to see and always means replacement .When  the boiler was being removed and was stripped out  it was not until we poped them apart that we noticed the wet concrete right under the original fire brick ate a hole through the cement and was draining under the basement floor undermining under neather the fire box .This was a1920 arco boiler piped to a early trane vapor system the push nipple was like a sheet of tin foil thin ,We had tryed to find this leak for about 1 month and original advised the home owner that they had got there money worth and really needed a new boiler they finally went for it and there mystery water lost was solved .If the boiler is that old get a properly sized one properly installed with a over sized header and you will see your fuel comsumption drop espically if this is a close to 100 year old boiler ,new boiler are quite  a bit more effecient but don't go cheap and make sure you get some one who is experenced with steam other wise you may not be happy peace and good luck clammy

how about taco controls

@ February 17, 2013 8:06 PM in post purge of system using zone valves

To bad taco did not offer one of there plug ins  for there expandable relays that would be a great options for either there circ or zone valve multi relay center .Be even nicer if it had a set able timer and possible a pre and post especially with a small buffer tank and micro zones ,btu required  wise to lowest modulation of the boiler would really be able to ride some systems of short cycling plus rid the boiler of excess btus .Would really like to see some one have a  indoor door sensor that communicates with the boiler water temp and gives the control indoor feedback and i know buderus has this but how about one that can be used with a any brand of mod con .I really have not looked at tekmar as of late but i image they would have something up there sleeve Thanks peace and goodluck clammy  

post purge of system using zone valves

@ February 17, 2013 8:08 AM in post purge of system using zone valves

Just wondering if anyone has given much thought to when they are using the post purge cycle on a mod con which also is controlling there system pump.Usually the boiler pump is either just pumping through P/S tees or a hydro seperator and the system pump is pumping out eo the emitters or through a DBVif zone valves are used ,i was wondewring if anyone has a control which would let you leave the valve open in concert with the boiler post purge cycle and dump the btus into the system instead of just pump through a DPV and also not enable the burner circuit unless there was a call for heat.Been thinking about that one for years .It really isn't a issue with single zone systems but multi zone with higher temps makes me think i like to run the post cycles usually 3 to 5 minutes on central heat and about the same for indirects .On mod cons i like for the boiler to shed some btus at the end of any cycle espically when used for high temp just a pet pev. Thanks peace and good luck clammy 

Thanks gordon

@ February 7, 2013 9:21 AM in aquaplus indirect ?

Thanks i will have to check w the supply house ,this will be the first turbomax and my first non buderus st150 indrect in at least 10 years or more ,makes me sad being i really liked there piping arraigment made for a very clean install with all connection at the rear making it easy to mount all piping to the wall oh well nothing remain the same all things are bound to change  i just hope i have as good luck with them as i have had with the st150 tanks not a leaker or failure yet cross my fingers .Thanks again peace and good luck clammy

aquaplus indirect ?

@ February 7, 2013 8:22 AM in aquaplus indirect ?

Well i was planning to use my favorite indirect only to find that the product line has been dropped by the supply house that carries them and well it's been a long time since i have used any other indirect and they have suggested using a Aquaplus tank .At a quick glance i see that it comes with a carlin aquastat but i am going to use it with a mod con and am wonder if there aquastat is removable and if there are any issues with using the sensor from the mod com to control .The other opition i have is using a thermomax tank which is another brand i have heard good about but have not personally used and the supply house which stocks them are a bit wishie washey on removing ther aqua stat and using the sensor that comes with the boiler.I guess i will be dealing with some one else for buderus stuff or dropping there line also very sad as if there panel rads are not hard enough to get now it will only be on line or end the panel rad installs ,very sad but as far as i know i seemed to be the only one who liked them and a few custermers .Thanks for any input  peace andf good luck clammy

Try nesbitt

@ February 3, 2013 8:23 AM in schemenauer unit ventilator

I used to do alot of work on a bunch of them and all our reasearch on them enabaled us to find out that they are really rebagged nesbitt units  most of all the parts on these unit where the exact same as used on nesbitt units just a different name but these where older unit s from the late 60s.Before the roof tops where replaced completely we had replaced just about everything you could think of .The units where replaced by others about 8 years ago with new nesbitts and they have had there issues but we have had a real hard time getting parts for them because of company has  restructured but when we could get parts they where OEM and always fit and worked fine .Lots of issues with the control system and soft ware updates which no one wants to buy gotta love that hot cold deck and zone actucators but repairing equals money peace and good luck clammy

Oventroupe

@ December 22, 2012 7:20 AM in Honeywell concentric radiator valve

Oventroupe makes asingle entry valve but as far as i know it's orination is differnert but take a look thru there catalog they may have it except i have not seen one ,with a little imagation and using a dip tube and a cross tee you can make one the operates simalar ,i have a large steam rad that i converted to a hot water rad using a onnly one side with supply and return and a dip tube inserted 3/4 of the way into the rad works very well .Hope this helps peace and good luck clammy

Any reviews or thoughts on HTP elite FT boiler

@ December 13, 2012 11:04 AM in Any reviews or thoughts on HTP elite FT boiler

Just wondering if anyone has installed one and what they thought ,looking at a job and it looks like the best fit for the job .Thanks peace and good luck clammy

Bottom return

@ December 9, 2012 9:32 AM in loud return duct

When ever i do hot air and  i am replacing anything over a 3.5 ton drive i use  the bottom return instead of the side cut out return .Alot of the hvac supply house now  sell bottom return duct kits it makes life a bit easier over doing cut out on the left and right of the unit . This was some thing that we always did on 4 ton and up units and this was from 20 years ago .The return duct is defenitly to small 20 x 12 would be fine i woulsd also look at the type of registers you have i always spend the extra  money and get wide bar registers instead of the cheaper stamped face ,the wide bar are a little less restrictive plus they look alot better in my eyes and with hot air you are stuck looking at registers for ever unless you switch to a wet source of heat.peace and good luck clammy

Small buffer tanks

@ December 8, 2012 8:27 AM in Small buffer tanks

Wonering what the thoughts are on adding a small say 10 gallons tank in series with my radiant on the return side of the radiant loop after the mixing valve .What i plan is to add some volume to the radiant system being it is not doing a large rea say 800 sq ft and the boiler does mod down but does seem to slightly short cycle at the end of the cycle .I was thinking that a little bit more volume would give me a bit more run time and cut the minor short cycling at the end of the cycle .I only have this slight issue with the radiant and it only occurs when it is only the radiant calling when my panel rad zone is on all is fine .Thanks peace and good luck clammy

Circulator post purge control

@ December 8, 2012 8:19 AM in Circulator post purge control

Not to get into it all  i am wondering if there is a way to run my zone  circ post my stat being satisfyed i am using a taco sr403 expandable and would like to purge the rest of the heat out of the system and lower my AWT at the end of the cycle .For a bit more info this is a low to med temp (max 140 at 0 OAT)using panel rads w trv  and staple up the staple up and the rads use just about the same temp and i have a I series valve on the radaint .For a heat source i am using a older munchkin T80M she has been running for about 7 years and no promblems not one code  yet and running at about 96 to 98 eff on the CA for a indirect i am using a buderus st150 and the munchkin is piped using a hydroseperator and has the vision one controls installed , pretty much happy with it's performace even though the munchkin  has  gotten blasted from time to time .Thanks for any help peace and ood luck clammy

Tee spacing

@ November 30, 2012 8:04 AM in First Winter with TT Solo 110

Even though the p/s piping is right on top (or underneith ) the boiler ,the fact weather a tee on a P/S pipin is hortizontal or vertical in possition makes no never mind except in some cases making it easier to install a check or thermal trap but the issue i see is the distance between the elbow and second tee there should be more straight length of pipe, the ell is to close that piece of pipe should be at least 7 to 10 inches long  . (in photo tee on left ) .I would have all the zone pumps set to low and would have piped it using the perferred  piping method which prioritizes the domestic hot water .This unit has a internal circ correct .