Heating Help

White-Rodgers zone valves make my head ache

@ March 13, 2012 5:08 PM in White-Rodgers zone valves make my head ache

We have a system that we're adding an indirect WH to and would like to use an Argo AZ6CP panel.  There are WR 1311 3 wire zone valves existing and we're adding a Taco for the indirect.  I've been looking at the installation instructions for the 1311 ZVs for an hour and still haven't really wrapped my head around just what is happening.  I feel like this every time we run into these ZVs.

It looks like terminal 5 in the t-stat and on the ZV gets constant power from the transformer and  power to 4 or 6 close or open the ZV.  For the life of me, I can't tell which does which though.  And I'm not 100% comfortable in my assessment that 5 gets constant power.

It also looks to me that 2/5 and 3 connect to TT on the aquastat.

Any chance anyone has a wiring diagram for wiring these zone valves to an Argo AZ6CP panel?  Or failing that, could someone tell me which terminals power the ZV open and which terminals power it closed?

Thanks for any help.
Steve

Thanks

@ October 17, 2011 4:06 PM in ZV hammer vs Grundfos Alpha

We're looking at a problem job.  Not one of ours.  There are a few ways to rectify the hammering.  Replacing a standard pump with a delta-P pump would be a relatively inexpensive solution while providing the additional benefit of lower electrical usage.

Thanks for the input.

ZV hammer vs Grundfos Alpha

@ October 14, 2011 4:16 PM in ZV hammer vs Grundfos Alpha

Over the years we've solved numerous complaints of ZV, typically HW, hammer by replacing the ZVs with Taco 570 series valves.  I'm wondering if the Grundfos Alpha 15-55 pump would help to solve that issue or would it not react quickly enough help.

I understand how a delta-P pump operates and it seems that it may address the problem, but I don't know how quickly it reacts.  Too slow and you would still have the hammer.

Anyone tried this?

Upstate NY

@ March 14, 2011 8:22 PM in "BusYness" survey - Mad Dog

We had our best year ever last year in terms of gross sales and net profit.  This year is starting off pretty decently.  We're full swing into our annual services now.  Just 2 of us, but if this year continues we'll be looking to add another tech.

Steve Scott
Comfort Technology

CA service

@ December 22, 2010 10:10 AM in Testo 327 or Bacharach Insight?

Supposedly these new CAs are more field serviceable.  At least for sensor replacement and calibration.  I have heard that Bacharach's instrument service was quite slow at times too.  So far we haven't had to test that with our Fyrite Pro 125 though.

Testo 327 or Bacharach Insight?

@ December 21, 2010 8:03 PM in Testo 327 or Bacharach Insight?

We're looking to buy another CA.  I'm looking at Testo's 327 and Bacharach's Insight.  Definitely need a printer.  Something that's field serviceable and that doesn't have to go back for calibration is almost a must.

I like the looks of Testo's hose connection and the way the probe locks into the vent.  Having the water trap in the unit seems a nice touch.  NOx filter is nice as is the particulate filter.  I don't like the built-in rechargeable battery.  Really easy to throw new batteries in.  Hard sometimes to charge a rechargeable on the fly.

I've read a couple of comments that the 327's reaction time is slower than the Insight's.  Is that the case?  If so, just how much?

All in all I like the looks of the 327 a little better.  Any field feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Safety first, efficiency second

@ October 28, 2010 8:38 AM in Finally stopped running

Our service agreement is called a Safety and Efficiency agreement.  Too often people are only concerned with the efficiency.  IMO, our biggest job is to make sure it's operating safely.  And that's why our service agreement is called what it is.

On questionable quality

@ May 27, 2010 9:37 AM in On questionable quality

I've been in "the trades" for more years than I care to admit, but I will say I went to job sites with my self employed father more than 50 years ago and spent most of my time checking out crawfish in nearby streams.

Contractors getting beat up by customers and beating up their suppliers is always going to be with us.  There are, I believe, several reasons why this is so. 

First, I believe most contractors suffer from low self esteem.  They don't believe in the value of what they do and feel they can't charge what they should be.  You see that all the time in the response "Why I could never get away with charging that here" or some other similar response.  This leads them to not having enough money to pay for and take the time off to attend classes to get better at their trade or to learn more about how to properly price their jobs.  I'm not sure these are the folks beating up suppliers though they might be inclined to use cheap parts to make some money somewhere.

Second, and I hate to admit this about my chosen field, but there are those who simply don't care.  They do the bare minimum required to get along.  They charge what they feel they can get away with which is generally a pittance of what the job correctly done should go for.  They are very comfortable beating up suppliers because they see that as an avenue for them to make more money.  They're not likely to to support their installations very long after they've been paid so the quality of parts is not really a big deal to them.

Whoe's seen one of these? And WTH is it?

@ May 20, 2010 9:50 PM in Whoe's seen one of these? And WTH is it?

I came across this the other day on a steam job.  The diameter is about 5' and I'd say it was about 24"-30" deep.  There were a couple of chunks of coal in there and what appeared to be ash.

Indirect WH

@ May 3, 2009 2:27 PM in indirect - glass vs stainless

I think every brand of water heater we've installed over the years has had at least one fail. Some more than one. The only one we have yet to replace is a Buderus.

I'll second the recommendation to check out Ellen.

@ April 5, 2008 9:26 PM in Off topic/accoutant

In fact, I recently finished a program of hers called "The Challenge". And it does challenge you. I highly recommend it.

Why take a chance?

@ April 5, 2008 9:19 PM in Has anyone used the Taco X-Pump Block?

Use a plate exchanger off the DHW side of the indirect.

Well, duh.

@ March 8, 2008 1:27 PM in Rad not in EDR? Tell me it ain't so!

I saw the National Aero convector but not the National Aero radiators right under it. LOL Thanks, Frank.

Aero

@ March 8, 2008 10:37 AM in Rad not in EDR? Tell me it ain't so!

We're quoting a job that's a mix or rads and BB. Some of the rads are Weil-McLain. Two of them are labeled Aero on the ends where the plugs are. I found the data on the W-M rads, but I'm not finding the info on the Aero rads. The only thing I came across was a cast iron convector which these aren't. They're window rads. 7 tube 20"H x 12"D 31 section units. If I can't come up with something, I'll use the data for W-M's window rad. They're fairly similar to those.

Check the article linked above

@ March 7, 2008 11:52 AM in nozzle angle when you increase pressure

It's by Delavan's engineers accompanied with photos of the same nozzle under varying pressures. According to them and the pictures, there's no significant angle change with pressure change "after a true divergent spray is established". The information shows no angle change from 10-300psi. Pretty interesting article that I'd recommend reading.

Not true according to Delavan, JMC

@ March 7, 2008 12:37 AM in nozzle angle when you increase pressure

http://www.delavaninc.com/pdf/Fuel_Nozzles_for_Burners.PDF From page 4, "After a true divergent spray is established, any increase in the pressure does not change the basic spray angle. In the above photographs it will be noted that the spray angle measured at the orifice is the same at 300 psi as it is at 10 psi." An interesting read.

It depends.

@ February 19, 2008 8:52 AM in Labor rate

If you're charging a labor rate that covers all of your expenses and results in a net profit and you're billing service at T&M, then you could use the same rate for both. If you're billing FR for service, then you may well be using different hourly rates because labor efficiency comes into play. You will likely have fewer billable hours with FR service than you will with installs. We use significantly different labor rates for service vs installs.

I agree with this.

@ February 7, 2008 8:42 AM in power venter

In most ways the SS2 is a better unit than the SS1. You made the statement "One of the biggest problems with PV's is that they are frequently starved for combustion air". While I agree with this too, I would expand it to include almost ALL fossil fuel fired appliances. This is one of the most common problems we find with any installation. You could almost make the argument that at least with a PV folks know they have a problem. With a chimney the soot is out of sight, out of mind.

On a plate or cast in the body front. nm

@ February 6, 2008 9:51 AM in Gas pipe size

FWIW, the dryer is most likely high.

@ February 6, 2008 8:26 AM in Gas pipe size

We find most residential dryers are 20k input, but I'd guess the range is probably low. We generally use 65k input if the data isn't available. You may want to check the size of the meter as well although you're probably okay there. 275cfh is what we find on most older installs around here.

If there are no external regulators

@ February 6, 2008 12:53 AM in Gas pipe size

other than at the meter, natural gas usually runs about 7"WC. You need to find what's the maximum allowable pressure drop in your area. Here it's 0.5"WC. Make sure you count the fittings and use their EL when figuring the TEL of the runs. We were called in to quote a furnace replacement last week. The existing equipment is: 120,000 furnace 117,000 tankless WH 35,000 Tank WH 20,000 dryer 65,000 stove And da da da 250,000 pool heater 607,000 total input on a 1" black main with a 275 CFH meter. The really scary thing was I was the only one to quote them new gas piping along with coordinating with the gas company for a new meter. We got the job. There is justice sometimes after all. :)

If you're going to use a power vent

@ February 6, 2008 12:17 AM in power venter

Tjernlund is the way to go, IMO. You don't mention what fuel you have. IF it's oil you'll want to use an SS1 or SS2. They each have their pluses and minuses. The SS2 is easier to install, but the end of the pressure tube has a tendency to plug. The SS1 has a tendency for the blower wheel to go out of balance. There doesn't seem to be any pattern to it either. We've got clients whose wheel went out of balance a couple of times in 5 years requiring that the wheel be replaced. I've had an SS1 in my home for almost 15 years and have never had that issue. All in all, I'd probably go with the SS2.