Joined on March 11, 2004
Last Post on August 31, 2014
@ August 31, 2014 11:28 AM in steam headerlikely has a larger steam chest which lets the water separate from the steam. Piping on one of these units is less critical. But you can't get away with that on a new boiler.
@ August 31, 2014 11:24 AM in Cut In on New Steam Boiler??usually come from the factory set at the top of the scale. The installers should have cranked it down- since they didn't, we know they weren't paying attention.
Crank it down!
@ August 31, 2014 9:42 AM in Oil to gasI got the calculations done. Thank God I married a teacher...........
As an example we'll look at the Solaia SL-4100, whose capacity is just a bit larger than the Sunnyday in question. It has a burner capacity of 1 GPH (140,000 BTU per hour), a DOE rating of 122,000 BTUH and a Net rating of 106,000 on oil. Its AFUE rating is 86.1%.
122,000 is 87.1% of 140. So this boiler's thermal efficiency is 87.1%.
But- 106,000 is only 75.7% of 140,000. That pickup factor really changes things.
I would not expect the Sunnyday in question to do as well as the Solaia or some other current 3-pass boiler, but it's certainly not as bad as 74%. Also, they may have been using a higher pickup factor when this boiler was made. Without knowing the Gross Output, we can't tell for sure.
I'm sure some of you will want to run the numbers yourself. If you don't have a hardware-based calculator with the right % functionality available, here is an online one you can use. It even shows you the formulas:
Try this on some of your favorite boilers. The results might interest you.
@ August 31, 2014 8:47 AM in Oil to gasWe're missing the "Gross Output" figure (now called "DOE Heating Capacity"). The rating plate only shows the burner capacity (a.k.a. Input) and the Net rating, which inserts a pickup factor. This doesn't help us when determining a boiler's thermal efficiency.
I'd post an example, but I'm out of town and the calculator that comes with Windows doesn't have the right % function to do it.
@ August 29, 2014 7:50 PM in Going around obsticalsthat 1/2" difference is what makes this thing work.
@ August 29, 2014 9:39 AM in Trio oil boiler with their energy manager plus II controlis based on the Biasi block, like the Solaia. We've installed several Solaias and like them. Haven't seen the Trio's control though, but the one that comes with the Solaia is nice.
You do need to make sure this boiler doesn't get too much cold return water. This would involve either a thermal bypass or a primary-secondary hookup.
@ August 28, 2014 11:38 PM in Zone valves and RIB cubesif the coil of the RIB is wired to terminal 3 of a Taco 570-series or other 3-terminal ZV, it is being used as an "isolation relay".
The terminals on the 570 ZV head are:
1- to thermostat
2- 24V power feed, usually coming from the R side of the transformer
3- end switch sending 24V out to a relay or other equipment.
Terminal 2 is wired internally to one side of the heat motor and also the end switch. The thermostat is wired to the other side of the heat motor via terminal 1. When the thermostat closes, it completes the circuit thru the heat motor back to the C side of the transformer, and the motor expands the wax to open the valve.
When the valve opens, it closes an internal switch (the "end switch") and 24 volts appears on terminal 3, goes to a relay coil which activates the relay, and back to the C side of the transformer.
It is possible to wire these ZV heads to the TT terminals of the usual boiler control without using a relay if you get the polarities of the transformers just right. But I always use a relay because sometimes transformers don't play well together, and it's way too easy to get polarities mixed up on a 1:30 AM no-heat call.
The ZV relay panel Icy mentioned does basically the same thing, enclosing all the hook-up wiring in the housing so you don't really have to think about it.
@ August 28, 2014 11:15 PM in Oil to gasand is probably in better shape :-O
I don't have the info handy but I believe those Sunnyday boilers were three-pass units, which were surprisingly efficient if properly installed, tuned and maintained. Three-pass means the combustion products travel the length of the boiler three times, which is key to their efficiency. Some Crane 3-pass boilers, however, had extra-large final passes which didn't extract much heat unless they were baffled well. Baffles also work well in the other passes of these boilers.
With that said, however, a newer boiler will be more efficient, even if it's a cast-iron one.
The issues with condensing boilers are 1- that they cannot exhaust through a standard chimney, and 2- some of them have had rather short life spans.
The exhaust situation means you either exhaust them through the sidewall, or drop suitable piping through the existing chimney (assuming this is even possible) which also means you can't connect anything else, such as a water heater, to that chimney. If you come out the side of the house, you have to come out at certain distances from windows, doors and other wall penetrations, and at least a foot above the highest snow accumulation in the area. That last point doesn't appear in all manufacturers' instructions, but if the unit gets a noseful of snow and shuts down or runs poorly, no one is going to be able to come and fix it until the roads are cleared.
Some condensing boilers, particularly those using heat exchangers made by Gianonni, have started leaking after 5-10 years of use. Since these are typically more expensive to buy and install, and require more maintenance than the typical gas boiler, that represents a rather poor value.
Fortunately, non-condensing boilers are getting more efficient. We've been using the Burnham ES2 (85% AFUE) and 3 series (84%) atmospheric units, with good results. A modern 3-pass boiler with a power burner like the Carlin EZ-Gas will also give as good or maybe slightly better efficiency. This is quite a jump from the 80% gas boilers offered as recently as a couple years ago.
Whichever way you go, add an outdoor-reset control which adjusts the water temperature based on the outdoor temperature. This will give you a saving of at least 10% of your fuel.
@ August 28, 2014 10:45 PM in What is the solution?looks to me like this is a steam main above a dropped ceiling. We generally drill and tap the side of the last tee for 1/2" pipe thread, holding the drill and the tap at a slight pitch so they slope down towards the tee, and use a short nipple and an elbow to mount the vent. This way the pipe to the vent does not collect water and bang.
@ August 28, 2014 10:41 PM in Unbalanced Steam System?????????there may be someone in your area who can help.
@ August 27, 2014 8:13 PM in oil burner replacementthese are much easier to service, so there is a much better chance of their being serviced properly.
@ August 27, 2014 8:08 PM in BTU needed on Oil to Gas convesionIf so, or even it it's a later model, that Wayne burner won't work well. Its fan will not develop enough static air pressure to move enough air through the tight flueways in these boilers. You will not get good combustion efficiency and the CO levels may be too high, from incomplete combustion.
The Carlin EZ-Gas would be my first choice, followed by the Riello gas burner. Beckett just came out with their CG4 but I have not used one, so can't speak to its capability.
@ August 27, 2014 2:03 PM in Weil Mclain Burner to Beckett Burnerthey will run fine with proper setup. But you can't set them up like a Beckett, which too many knuckleheads try to do. For setup info, go here:
The delayed ignition can have several causes- electrodes not set properly, bad ignitor or nozzle, etc. The fuel unit (pump) is a standard Suntec part. Carlin and others make replacement ignitors for this burner.
You should not have to replace the cad cell (eye) each year. I'd bet the burner head is out of adjustment, possibly causing the cell to overheat.
Did the oil company set up this burner using a combustion analyzer? Since you're having so much trouble with it, I think I know the answer................
@ August 27, 2014 1:57 AM in Steam versus Hot AirSaint-Saens' Third symphony would be my choice. The fourth movement is awesome!
@ August 23, 2014 8:34 PM in New House Heatingalong with some pics:
I've seen this system operate- it's everything Gerry says it is. You would do well to go this route.
@ August 23, 2014 8:17 PM in New House Heatingwe'll get lots and lots of pictures, right?
@ August 22, 2014 11:54 PM in steam headerone question- does the return lines' teeing together above the waterline allow steam to get into the returns and bang?
@ August 22, 2014 11:24 PM in steam headerand it's wrong. It is likely causing wet steam, which you don't want.
This article has a pic of a well-done drop header on an older EGH:
@ August 21, 2014 9:57 PM in Oil boiler with gas conversion burnerSlant/Fin Intrepid and Columbia CSFE for the smaller jobs, with one or two Weil-McLain SGO when we needed to disassemble the block to bring it in. Mostly W-M 80 series for light commercial jobs, with a couple Burnham V9A. Which one we choose is based on the specifics of the particular job.
Most of our burners are Carlin (EZ-Gas, 201Gas, 301Gas) though we have used some Midco and PowerFlame units.
Most of our chimneys are semi-exposed, and the owners have them lined.
Almost all our gas services are low-pressure, 7-8" w.c.
@ August 21, 2014 8:47 AM in Steam versus Hot Airyour church's bylaws. There may be something in there regarding financial matters that they have conveniently overlooked. Also there may be some provision for removal from office in cases of incompetence or malfeasance.
@ August 21, 2014 1:10 AM in Oil boiler with gas conversion burnerfor either type. Use the factory-published ratings. Multiply the oil firing rate by 140,000 to get the Input BTUH.