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The Wall
Steamhead

Steamhead

Joined on March 11, 2004

Last Post on August 31, 2014

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If those Vari-Valves

@ December 24, 2002 9:11 AM in Main venting for one pipe steam

are wide open, each will vent as much air as a Gorton #1 main vent. This may explain the situation. You want the big vents on the mains and the smaller ones on the radiators. To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"

Did you

@ December 24, 2002 12:39 AM in Main venting for one pipe steam

try firing the boiler with the vent removed, to see if air comes out the pipe? The steam pushes air ahead of it, looking for an exit (higher pressure to lower pressure) so if the pipe is open you should get air. The only thing I can think of that would alter this scenario is if someone put monster vents on the radiators. What vents do you have on them? To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"

I think you've got it

@ December 24, 2002 12:35 AM in steam problem

try re-pitching the pipe. To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"

Bret, as long as The Wall exists

@ December 24, 2002 12:26 AM in Convert from Steam to Hot Water?

there will be steam experts available. I don't see a problem there. I have a feeling your 2-pipe system is actually Vapor. These were the Cadillac of heating in their day and can still hold their own. Do you know who made the system? Replacement trap innards are available from Barnes & Jones, Hoffman and Tunstall. They maintain online catalogs so you can determine what parts you need. Again, no problems here. There's still a lot of steam and Vapor out there, and even a few contractors like us who will still install steam from scratch! Plenty of market to support. The sluggishness you mention is probably a trap or air-vent problem. Either is easily fixed. I guess you can tell I like steam and Vapor systems. If that were my house, I'd repair the Vapor system and install a new, efficient boiler. Web sites: www.barnesandjones.com (trap parts) www.gorton-valves.com (real nice air vents) www.hoffmanspecialty.com (trap parts and air vents) www.tunstall-inc.com (trap parts and radiator shutoff valve repair- can also rebuild rad shutoff into thermostatic units) To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"

In the boiler room

@ December 23, 2002 11:53 PM in Small Diverter-tee Installation (Steamhead)

we changed to Pumping Away. The Weil-McLain sealed-combustion boiler has a built-in air separator so we just used that. Each zone has a Taco 007. Now that he has heat in the basement, the owner can finish it off. Happy Holidays everyone. To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"

Can't call this one Monoflo

@ December 23, 2002 11:48 PM in Small Diverter-tee Installation (Steamhead)

because we didn't use B&G's tees. This radiator had been installed on an inside wall, so we moved it. To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"

Basement radiators wouldn't heat

@ December 23, 2002 11:45 PM in Small Diverter-tee Installation (Steamhead)

Given the size of the mains they were on, they couldn't. We decided to make the basement a separate zone, using down-feeding diverter tees. Most of the heat loss was at the end of the basement opposite the boiler. Using diverter tees allowed us to send the heat to these radiators first. The owner already had sheetrock up so we ran the pipes exposed- which is kind of chic these days anyway. You can see the old capped-off drop pipes under the bulkhead. To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"

Efficiency

@ December 22, 2002 3:13 PM in National Radiator gas boiler

can be expressed in several ways depending on how it is being measured. Combustion efficiency= how well the burners turn fuel into heat. This is what you're getting from the combustion analysis. Steady-state efficiency= how well the boiler and burner generate heat and transfer it to the water, when the boiler is running constantly. This is what you're getting from the ratings and the stack temps. Annual efficiency (a.k.a. Annual Fuel Utilization Efficiency, or AFUE) takes losses into account when the boiler is off. This is where most boilers that age lose efficiency, especially atmospheric gas boilers. That's the basis for you being told your boiler is only about 60% efficient. New boilers must have an AFUE of at least 80%, and some are much higher. It may pay to replace that old National on that basis. To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"

Try this

@ December 22, 2002 3:04 PM in Main venting for one pipe steam

let the system cool down completely. Then remove the main vents and start the boiler. Steam should move quickly down the mains and out thru the vent pipes- shut down the boiler at this point. If this happens, go ahead and put the bigger vents in. If it does not, either the vent pipe connections are beneath the system's water line so air cant vent thru them (unlikely) or the pipes have become clogged. To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"

I think you need to clean that boiler

@ December 22, 2002 2:59 PM in Dear Sir,

Dirty water will produce those fluctuations and also cause water to fall into the glass from the top. Flush out the water side of the boiler thoroughly and see if that helps. To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"

That's easy, Steve

@ December 22, 2002 2:55 PM in No more Tinman

Just delete the cookie placed on your system by www.heatinghelp.com as this is where the info is stored. Procedures vary depending on what browser you're using. The next time you go to post something, fill in the new info and it should be saved. To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"

Another reason the Dead Men oversized those boilers

@ December 22, 2002 2:43 PM in Sizing Gravity conversion circulators.....Boilerpro

was to provide a bigger grate and firebox so the owner would not have to shovel coal so often. I see this all the time on coal-converted boilers in both hot-water and steam systems. Around here the ones I see seemed to all be sized 50-75% bigger than the radiation they served. When I "right-size" a circ on one of these boilers it always looks really small- but works great! Happy Holidays, all. To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"

Glad I could help

@ December 22, 2002 2:29 PM in Burnham boiler - oil fired beauty !

I knew that burner could run well, since mine does. Have a good holiday.......... To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"

Try

@ December 20, 2002 8:36 PM in steam traps

Barnes & Jones www.barnesandjones.com or Tunstall www.tunstall-inc.com Both have online catalogs in which you should be able to find what you need. To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"

Good idea

@ December 20, 2002 8:24 PM in Sizing Gravity conversion circulators.....Boilerpro

but I've never used one- any out there that you like? To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"

Interesting idea

@ December 20, 2002 7:01 PM in Sizing Gravity conversion circulators.....Boilerpro

but I'd need to locate a circ with a lower delivery rate than the 005, that would fit standard mounting flanges. Part of the "test-bed" idea is easily swapping components in and out so I can see the effect, and change it back quickly if it doesn't work as well. The 006 has a lower rate as does the 003, but they have sweat connections and I'd have to do some repiping. Maybe when I get some time.... Most of the gravity systems I've seen really got going as the boiler temp reached 160 or so. Trouble is, on mild days they don't get nearly that warm and circulation suffers. If we can provide that 160-or-over rate of circulation all the time no matter how hot the boiler is, we should be fine. I think it's OK if we go slightly over, but not so much as to get a diminished delta-T. To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"

The long main

@ December 20, 2002 2:31 PM in Main venting for one pipe steam

has about 3 times the air that the short one does. Use a Gorton #1 on the short main and a Gorton #2 on the long one. This should make the steam reach the ends of both mains at the same time, without unnecessary delay. To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"

The difference is

@ December 20, 2002 2:14 PM in Sizing Gravity conversion circulators.....Boilerpro

you have all that water in the large pipes of a gravity system. If you size the circ strictly to the BTU load or EDR, the system will be sluggish. You have to move the water fast enough, but not too fast. To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"

If that's a \"wrap-around\" main

@ December 19, 2002 9:53 PM in steam boiler problems

it needs lots of venting. You probably have at least 50 feet of 2-inch pipe in that main. That's worth a Gorton #2 vent- and more if the main is longer. You want to get the air out of the main in about a minute, measured from the time the boiler starts producing steam. www.gorton-valves.com To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"

Dole 95

@ December 19, 2002 9:49 PM in Main venting for one pipe steam

sounds too small. But how about measuring the length and diameter of your mains? Then we'll know how much air we're dealing with, and can suggest what vents to use. To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"

Check the wiring and controls the damper is connected to

@ December 19, 2002 9:46 PM in Utica damper motor

if there's a short somewhere that sends too much current thru the end switch, that can cause it to fail. To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"

I actually get about 15 GPM

@ December 19, 2002 9:39 PM in Sizing Gravity conversion circulators.....Boilerpro

from the 005. That's a bit more than the calculations on which the chart is based would indicate but it still works much better than the 30-GPM B&G 100 did. That "50% bigger" rule came from B&G's 1940 Handbook. The actual method used in the Handbook was to calculate the circ size and then use the next size larger circ. Based on the circs B&G was making at that time, the "next size" would give about 50% more capacity, give or take. Taco had a similar procedure. The reason I express it that way in the chart is because B&G and Taco aren't the only ones making circs these days, so this allows you to go straight to the performance curves of whoever's circs you're using. BTW, everything I've read on gravity conversions says to choose the circ's capacity at a 3-1/2-foot head. This is because there's so little resistance in old gravity pipes. Most of the resistance on a conversion is probably in the near-boiler piping! Swampeast Mike T. hit it right on the head with his Delta-T post. This is what got me started down the circ-sizing path. If the water is moving too fast, the heat is not being picked up properly in the boiler or released in the rads. This will show up as a very small Delta-T. We want to try to mimic the flow that would occur with a gravity boiler at 180 degrees. In any case, I would not have sent the chart to Dan without having tried it myself on several different-sized systems. It worked so well at my house that I was able to slightly down-fire my boiler! To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"