Heating Help

Mod Con venting

@ February 6, 2012 8:31 PM in Mod Con common venting question...historical police!

How many boilers. I know Triangle Tube Prestige boilers can be vented vertical and fresh air can be brought in from a side wall. Check with them to see if you can common vent out the roof or if you would need to run separate vents out the roof. If the old chimney is big enough you might be able to get the separate vents out the roof. You can vent their boilers in 2", 3" or 4" PVC pipe. What about one large boiler and use BTU meeters for each apartment.

contractors near Philadelphis

@ February 6, 2012 6:05 AM in Boiler is short cycling

How close are you to Philly. I work for a Plumbing & Heating wholesaler in Allentown and I have customers in Bucks county that could help you.
Yes radiant pex tubing with oxygen barrier is more expensive than regular pex pipe. Look at using Viega fostapex pipe with aluminum with oxygen barrier. this tubing will not droop or grow when running hot boiler water through it radiant pex will droop and grow when running hot boiler water through it. The hotter water the more the regular radiant pex will droop and grow.
why don't you us a radiant header like the ones from Ledgend Hydronics and run 1/2" pex direct to each baseboard or radiator in each room. you could balance the system real easy that way. I the future you could go to a condensing gas boiler and the piping would already be done.
Send me a email as to where your house is.
Good luck

PE vs PS

@ February 5, 2012 4:25 PM in Prestige Excellence vs. Prestige Solo + Indirect

There are pros and cons for both of these units.
I Have a PE110 in my house and never run out of domestic hot water. The 14 gallon stainless steel indirect in this model makes enough hot water to run shower after shower after shower just like a tankless gas water heater. If you install 1.5 GPM or 1.6 GPM shower heads you should be able to run two showers at one time. The thing I look at with the PE110 boiler and built in SS indirect water heater is if it leaks it will not be easy to replace it plus the warranty is only 10 years on SS IDWH.
The PS110 boiler and Smart 40 or Smart 50 is plenty big enough for the average house doing only showers and the Smart series has a limited life time warranty on the tank. When you use PS110 + Smart 40/50 there will be two circulators running and that will cost you more money than running only one circulator with the PE110 boiler unit.
I do not think ther will be much difference in energy savings between the two systems.
No matter what way you go you will have a great system.

IDWH

@ February 3, 2012 6:39 AM in Indirect water heaters

Take a look at using Triangle Tube Smart Stainless Steel Indirect water heater. Their heat exchange surface is one of the largest. Store the water at 180*F and use a temp valve to send to faucet at 120*F. Why do you not have the home owner install low flow shower heads like the Alsons/Delta 655C 1.6 GPM heads. If there is room look at installing a fiberglass storage tank before the IDWH. 80 or 120 gallon temper the cold incoming water temp. If water temp is from a city supply the incoming water temp could be as low as 45*F get that temp up with storage. Does the home owner have Nat gas or LP gas? what about a tankless gas water heater?

18,000 btu

@ January 29, 2012 12:20 AM in Need about 18,000 btu's to heat small apartment any ideas.

How about a A O Smith Vertex gas water heater. This unit has tapping's on the side where you can install a heat exchanger to keep the domestic water and heating water separate. Use low temp copper baseboard like the heating edge made by Smith's Environmental.  www.hotwater.com
Triangle Tube Prestige Solo condensing gas boiler model PS60 16,000 - 60,000 BTU input with a Smart 30 Gallon SS indirect water heater or their Challenger CC85 23,000 - 84,000 BTU input with 2 GPM domestic hot water condensing gas boiler / water heater all in one unit. www.triangletube.com

condensing boiler primary secondary piping

@ January 26, 2012 12:19 PM in condensing boiler primary secondary piping

anyone using the Caleffi Hydrolink for primary secondary piping. http://www.caleffi.us/en_US/Technical_brochures/01084/01084.pdf
if you are not using this what are you using?

oil vs nat gas

@ January 25, 2012 3:52 PM in Oil vs NG

replaced oil oil boiler with TT PE110 condensing nat gas boiler.
last year for heating, domestic hot water and cooking I paid $1076 for the year for nat gas.
If I stayed with old oil boiler with domestic coil in boiler it would have cost me $2482 plus the electric it cost me to run the kitchen stove/oven.and electric baseboard in bathroom that now has a very warm cast iron radiator in it.

Low Temb Copper Baseboard

@ January 25, 2012 6:36 AM in Daikin Altherma/Low Temp Baseboard

Its called the Heating Edge made by Smith's Environmental check it out here:
http://www.smithsenvironmental.com/html/he.html
http://www.smithsenvironmental.com/ES_HeatEdge4cBro_SM_4.pdf
if you are at design temp and sending water out of your boiler at 150*F and returning 130*F you get 755 BTU per foot and your boiler should be in condensing mode almost all the time. 140*F coming back at 120*F you get 651 BTU per foot. this is at 4 GPM
How many hours per year does outside temp get down to design temp? Most of the heating season outside temp is higher than design temp.
If you have the wall space and the money install bore baseboard and run the system at lower supply temps.
has anyone used this baseboard and how did those jobs go.? 

primary secondary piping

@ January 23, 2012 6:24 AM in correct primary secondary piping setup

anyone use this? http://www.caleffi.us/en_US/Technical_brochures/01084/01084.pdf
how good is this product?

Double dip tubed

@ January 20, 2012 6:34 AM in Double Dip Tubed!

If the indirect how water heater was a triangle tube and there was a dip tube in the hot water supply pipe it was put in the wrong connection. The reason that there would be two dip tubes in this unit is so this model can be used with a domestic hot water recirculation pump like a grundfos comfort pump where there is a return line from the bathroom gets run back to the IDWH. From what I know the extra dip tube is a special order extra part. Looks like someone did not read the instruction book because the dip tube for domestic hot water recirculation gets installed in a different tapping on this IDWH.

MPO 84

@ January 15, 2012 11:37 AM in Can the Burnham MPO 84 be upfired

Size the boiler for the heating load of the house. The Burnham Alliance AL35SL delivers 200 Gallons the first hour with 99,000 BTU input. With the MPO84 you should get about 160 gallons the first hour. Make sure the contractor makes the indirect water have priority and when they pipe the indirect in make sure they run 1" copper supply and return even if the fittings on the indirect are 3/4". copper 3/4" carries only 40,000 BTU and 1" carries 72,000 BTU. Use 1.6 GPM or 1.5 GPM shower head and reduce the lava faucets from 2.2 GPM  to 1.5 GPM with reduced aerators.

gas water heaters

@ January 15, 2012 8:34 AM in water heater vs tankless

Go to a web site like Noritz www.noritz,com and sent them a email. The tankless water heater companies tell you their units save money because they only use gas when hot water is needed. Tankless gas water heaters should never run out of hot water and if serviced annually they should last 10 - 15+  years most have 12 year heat exchanger warranty. I would sell TGWH on the benefit that they never run out of hot water and on how long they should last.  If going tankless make sure the gas line is large enough. Re piping the gas line is a expense that needs to be addressed when selling TGWH. Take a look at the A O Smith www.hotwater.com Vertex 50 gallon tank type water heaters. They have two 50 gallon models that have a thermal efficiency of 90% & 96%. These units have a 6 year warranty. The Vertex 50 gallon model delivers more hot water than 75 gallon tank type and the GPHE-50 is only 76,000 BTU input and in most home the gas line should be large enough with out re piping it and making it larger.  No matter if you go TGWH or tank type if the home owner has hard water and does not treat it the hard water will increase their hot water energy costs by 25% - 30% in a short time. On the tank type unit you can make it last a lot longer than 6 years by replacing the anode rode every year and flushing the tank out two to three timer per year.

condensing gas boiler

@ January 15, 2012 8:13 AM in looking for a replacement direct vent boilers

take a look at Triangle Tube Prestige Solo + Prestige Excellence and their new Challenger boiler. www.triangletube.com  where are you located at?

higher temp

@ January 14, 2012 9:57 AM in indirect water temp to increase capacity

if you are going with the Burnham MPO boiler you can give the indirect water heater priority. you could also check with WM and see how hot you can store the domestic water at. I believe the WM indirect was made by Triangle Tube and in their units you can store the water at 160* - 180* F but you must use a temp mixing valve to get supply temp to faucets down to 120*F. Also take a look at replacing old shower heads that flow at 2.5 GPM or higher. I have a Alsons 655C model in my house that flows at 1.6 GPM and I have two daughters with very long hair and they never complained to me that the shower does not put out enough hot water. When you reduce your water consumption your water and sewer bills will go down. Plus when using less hot water your cost to heat it will also go down. If you have your own private well and septic system using less hot water will make both of those systems last longer.

gas boiler

@ January 12, 2012 7:45 PM in Couple of quesitons on a gravity hot water system

i have a old system like yours but there was a oil fired cast iron Weil Mclain boiler in with one circulator. I took that boiler out two years ago and went with a Triangle Tube (www.triangletube.com) PE110 condensing gas boiler. oil vs nat gas I am saving about $1500+ per year on my heat and domestic hot water costs. when going from old gas boiler to condensing boiler you should be able to lower your energy costs but not as much as going from oil to nat gas. I would put new radiator valves on and install a condensing gas boiler that works off a outdoor reset control. you could look at taking out the large pipes and use a radiant manifold and run 1/2" viega fostapex pipe direct to each radiator. the radiators close to the thermostat you can reduce the flow so when there is a call for heat the system would run just a little longer and all other radiators should be nice and warm. If installing a radiant manifold and running 1/2" direct to each radiator you could get rid of all radiator valves and balance each radiator at the manifold.

tankless gas water heater question

@ January 12, 2012 7:21 AM in tankless gas water heater question

Most tankless gas water heaters require 140,000 up to 199,000 BTU on residential models. In a lot of homes the gas line is 3/4". I believe on most jobs when totaling up all BTU needed to run all gas appliances the 3/4" line will not be big enough so if the home owner wants to have a tankless gas water heater installed they need to up grade the gas line and that is a major expense when trying to sell TGWH. Does any tankless gas water heater manufacturer have the capability of making the TGWH have priority over the gas furnace or gas boiler. When the TGWH turns on the power from the thermostat to the gas furnace or boiler would be turned off this way the original gas line in the house would be big enough to supply the TGWH and you the contractor would not have to up grade the gas line to a larger size

tankless gas water heater question

@ January 12, 2012 7:20 AM in tankless gas water heater question

Most tankless gas water heaters require 140,000 up to 199,000 BTU on residential models. In a lot of homes the gas line is 3/4". I believe on most jobs when totaling up all BTU needed to run all gas appliances the 3/4" line will not be big enough so if the home owner wants to have a tankless gas water heater installed they need to up grade the gas line and that is a major expense when trying to sell TGWH. Does any tankless gas water heater manufacturer have the capability of making the TGWH have priority over the gas furnace or gas boiler. When the TGWH turns on the power from the thermostat to the gas furnace or boiler would be turned off this way the original gas line in the house would be big enough to supply the TGWH and you the contractor would not have to up grade the gas line to a larger size

tankless gas water heater

@ January 12, 2012 7:18 AM in tankless gas water heater

Most tankless gas water heaters require 140,000 up to 199,000 BTU on residential models. In a lot of homes the gas line is 3/4". I believe on most jobs when totaling up all BTU needed to run all gas appliances the 3/4" line will not be big enough so if the home owner wants to have a tankless gas water heater installed they need to up grade the gas line and that is a major expense when trying to sell TGWH. Does any tankless gas water heater manufacturer have the capability of making the TGWH have priority over the gas furnace or gas boiler. When the TGWH turns on the power from the thermostat to the gas furnace or boiler would be turned off this way the original gas line in the house would be big enough to supply the TGWH and you the contractor would not have to up grade the gas line to a larger size.  

Triangle Tube PE110

@ January 11, 2012 2:25 PM in Tankless gas heaters/gas boiler?

The Triangle Tube PE110 boiler with built in indirect water heater. The indirect water heater is made out of stainless steel. The heat exchanger is also made out of stainless steel. you can contact Triangle Tube and they can let you know what grade stainless steel they both are. Good luck.

Boiler / TGWH

@ January 10, 2012 6:51 PM in Tankless gas heaters/gas boiler?

If you use a condensing boiler and tankless gas water heater you will have two appliances to vent. If installing a condensing gas boiler and tankless gas water heater you might have to get your gas line updated and made larger because tankless gas water heater require 150,000 - 199,000 BTU. your 1/2" or 3/4" gas line might not be large enough to run the condensing gas boiler + tankless gas water heater and other gas appliances all at the same time without making the gas line larger. Take a look at using the Triangle Tube Prestige Excellence PE100 (www.triangletube.com) the PE110 is a 110,000 input condensing gas boiler with a 14 gallon stainless steel indirect water built in that delivers 180 GPH of domestic hot water. As long as you do not have a whirlpool tub to fill this boiler will make enough hot water that can run two showers at one time if you use Alsons - Delta 1.6 GPM shower heads. If you need more domestic hot water you can use their Prestige Solo boiler and their Smart SS indirect water heater. Triangle Tube now offers a Challenger combi condensing gas boiler and domestic hot water heater all in one small wall hung boiler/water heater. The unit does heating and domestic hot water and there is no stored water in a tank. Get a professional to help you. Good luck.

Anodes?

@ January 7, 2012 9:47 AM in Do people really change anodes?

If home owners would replace their anode rods in any type water heater that has them in them every 18 to 24 months their tank type water heater would last much longer then if they never replaced it. Water heater manufactures install them to make their water heaters last longer. A 6 year warranty electric water heater will have only one anode rod where a 10 year warranty water heater will have two anode rods. Water will attack the anode rod first and after the anode rod is gone the water will find a small crack in the glass lining and attack the steel tank causing the tank to get a hole in it and leak then you will be replacing the water heater.  If you remove and replace the anode rod every year it should not be to hard to replace.

Pressure Booster pump

@ January 7, 2012 9:35 AM in Pressure Booster on Hot Water

take a look at installing a goulds pumps Aquaboost II constant pressure unit. It will do the whole house. This unit will give you constant pressure. Set the system for 50 - 65 PSI and the pump will only run if the system pressure goes below the system set pressure. The control on this system takes 230V 1PH and converts it to 120V 3PH and the pumps runs slow when you have only one faucet running and as you open (use) more faucets the pump runs faster automatically. grundfos also makes a pressure boosting pump for this type of job but it only boosts pressure it does not give you constant pressure. you could take the shower head off and use adapters to put a pressure gauge on it and see what pressure you are getting up there for both the cold and hot. when you came out of the shower faucet going to the shower head did you use 1/2" copper or did you use pex tubing?