Heating Help

tim I have

@ April 26, 2012 4:45 PM in burnham revolution- winter water shut-off

a honeywell sv9502 inside chassis attached to gas valve. dont know about the L8148 and smartvalve. Is that any help?...regards

Tim I think I see what you're saying....

@ April 22, 2012 11:44 PM in burnham revolution- winter water shut-off

So the low water cutoff basically protects the boiler, correct? Theoretically if the boiler never leaks then I would never need to add water and the main water can be shuf off.  
If this were a steam boiler like I used to have in my prior residence I periodically had to add water to the boiler. But in this system I should never have to add water. Therefore an automatic water feeder would be a no no or just unnecessary?
Just to make sure what does this low water cutoff device look like? Where exactly is it installed? I want to make sure I don't already have one installed. Regards...

I'm not sure>>

@ April 22, 2012 8:52 PM in burnham revolution- winter water shut-off

The first device that comes out of the supply side is made by Watts. It has a small lever on the top that can be pushed down or raised up. in both directions I can hear water being fed. Can I assume thats some type of water feeder? Next to that is a backflow preventer and a ball valve.

I hope to have someone stop in once a week while in Florida. I have always kept the indirect at 117 degrees. every 6 months I raise it to 150 degrees for 24 hrs. I keep a label on it so I remember to do it. I had experimented with a mixing valve, keeping it at 150 all the time but did not feel it was necessary and changed it back, removing the mixing valve.

I am not sure what you mean by an alarm. If the house is kept at 60 degrees 24/7 and the Revolution doesn't need any additional water, shouldn't I be good to go? It's a closed loop system. Why should there (or is there) a need to add water? regards... 

burnham revolution- winter water shut-off

@ April 22, 2012 12:56 PM in burnham revolution- winter water shut-off

I am planning on going to Florida for the winter months. My home is located in Easton, PA. I have the Burnham Revolution bolier, hot water system, slant fin radiation, indirect hot water tank.
Can I shut down the main water for the entire house? I am just afraid of a pipe leaking/breaking while I'm away for 4 months. I figure I will leave my thermostats at about 60 degrees. I'm not sure if the Revolution requires "additional" water to operate. I think it has an automatic water feed but I have never added water. system and home is 8 years old. regards...

702 sensor and 8148 setting

@ November 4, 2007 7:35 AM in Burnham Revolution & Taco 702 ODR

Glenn: The L8148e is set at 200 per Ron Beck's instructions. I know its supposed to be 210. Ron suggested that setting and also had my orifices reduced from .45 to .48. Ron figured a combination of all these changes would help significantly. I have definitely saved on fuel but I can't seem to nail down the Taco settings. It just takes so long to reach my stats settings and like yesterday the stat never reached 74. I'm looking for ideal settings in mild and cold weather with the most fuel efficiency as possible. I don't know if thats possible w/o changing settings during mild to cold weather. I also don't know if when changing the taco settings if the control needs an amt. of time to adjust to them (a day, week?) because its based on a ratio or curve. The sensor is located on the supply pipe. I have included a pic. The sensor is located exactly midway between the expansion tank and the elbow (the elbow that turns toward the expansion tank) on the top of the supply pipe, with insulation tie strapped around it. The outdoor unit is on the north side well hidden from the sun and wet weather. The temp. reading is accurate, maybe a 1-2 degree difference from the actual outside temp. Hope this helps. Also to my question earlier. Is the boiler supply temp supposed to be lower than the boiler target temp? Any other ideas or suggestions greatly appreciated. Thanks...

Burnham Revolution & Taco 702

@ November 3, 2007 7:19 PM in Burnham Revolution & Taco 702 ODR

hi: I have a Burnham Revolution RV5 (oversized, should have rv4) and Taco 702 ODR. Burnham tech. suggested using the 2 stage taco and having it wired with the 1st stage operating the internal revolution circulator and stage 2 firing the burners. I find that with the settings I'm using that my 2400ft well insulated ranch doesnt reach temps especially in milder weather. I am trying to balance keeping my house warm and using as little cubic ft as possible (well who isn't right?) I have been using design & outdr starts of 70, boiler design of 165 and outdr design of 0. I have changed those numbers to be 73,73,175,9 respectively. while this has raised the boiler target temp a few degrees my stat still can't reach the 74 we desire. Right now the taco at 54 degrees outside has a 103 boiler target, but the boiler supply temp on the taco is 89. How can the supply temp be 14 degrees below the target? does this indicate a problem? I would think the boiler should maintain a temp. closer to the target, correct? my boiler min. setting is at 80. burnham said to use that setting because the revolution can handle 55 degree return temps...I am using slant fin multipak high output fin baseboard. any help on the settings is appreciated.

check valve location

@ March 27, 2007 10:31 PM in Taco Mixing Valve Is Thermosiphoning

Dave: Yes thats what I thought. I'm a newbie but logic says that the hot water that is thermosiphoning into the cold side thru the mixing valve should go into the expansion tank first, expand, then hit the check valve which will stop any further siphoning into the cold line. While the theory is when I re-pipe it trapping the mixing valve, I probably will not need the check valve, I will install it just in case. Its not supposed to affect my water pressure to my fixtures (pressure drop) and it supposedly is silent...just extra insurance and I don't see any drawbacks...

DIY JOB

@ March 27, 2007 9:45 PM in Taco Mixing Valve Is Thermosiphoning

Hi: Thanks for response. Yes no doubt this is a DIY job done by me. I am just trying to save some bucks by doing it myself. Let me state that I did install shut off ball valves. If you look high in the left corner you can see one of the valves with the yellow handle. I just chose to install them farther up the line. I guess most would have installed them closer to the mixing valve so you bleed less water when servicing... I am going to re-pipe this on friday. I purchased a watts 601s check valve and liquid filled thermo gauge. While I will repipe this so that the mixing valve is 8-12" below the top of the tank to create a thermal trap my BIG QUESTION is this: In this setup in the pic, where DO YOU INSTALL THE CHECK VALVE??? The cold water supply is coming in on the RIGHT side of the expansion tank. From what I read the check valve should go to the right of the expansion tank. That would place the expansion tank between the heater and the check valve. Is that correct? Thanks...very important concerning the pressure build up...

traps and check valves

@ March 22, 2007 11:16 AM in Taco Mixing Valve Is Thermosiphoning

clammy: nice setup. Thats your house. wow. Thanks on the hanger advice for the tank. I was going to do that just havent gotten to it yet because I think I may have to repipe this. According to Taco the thermal trap should be piped below the COLD water inlet of the water heater for this mixing valve. However, on my Alliance indirect, the cold inlet is about 2 " off the ground. It looks like you have the same Taco valve as I do with the green cover. looks like you were able to trap it because you did not have a problem going below the cold water inlet from what I can determine. Since thats impossible for me we piped it as shown. So I am in the dark about how to trap this. ANY SUGGESTIONS? Lastly, if I open the piping up to re-do this how does it affect the expansion tank? Do I just have to make sure there is 40lb pressure in there before I close the piping up? Thanks....

thermal traps

@ March 22, 2007 10:12 AM in Taco Mixing Valve Is Thermosiphoning

hi: thanks for that pic. It seems that you do not have any check valves in that setup. At this point I would like to install a check valve. I just do not know which side it should go on. Logic says the HOT side so that when flow is stopped, hot water will not bleed to the cold side. It seems that the way my setup was piped a trap is now not feasible and the check valve is the easier solution. What do you think? thanks

taco 5000 pic

@ March 20, 2007 11:07 PM in Taco Mixing Valve Is Thermosiphoning

hi: Thanks for responses. I have included a pic of the installation. The watts exp. tank is installed on the cold water side. The hot water comes out the top of the indirect heater. The cold supply pipe coming out of the mixing valve, thru the exp. tank and all the way down towards the floor is HOT. Can someone explain where and type, model etc, check valve I should install. The web literature says the check valve should go on the cold side. It also says I should have installed the mixing valve below the hot water outlet on top of the tank (8-12"). I can re-do that but rather not. I have a 3/4" copper trap that can also be installed but I don't know where. Any suggestions are appreciated.

@ March 20, 2007 12:32 PM in Taco Mixing Valve Is Thermosiphoning

hi: I just had a Taco 5000 mixing valve installed with a watts expansion tank on my Burnham alliance indirect water heater. The heater is now set to 135 degrees and the valve is at 120 degrees. I will experiment with those numbers as time goes on. The problem is that the cold supply side of the Taco valve is as hot as the hot supply side. This thermosiphoning goes all the way down the cold side to the inlet of the water tank. I'd say thats a good 8' run in 3/4" pipe. I bgt a 3/4" copper trap which the plumbing supply said will help. However I've read about check valves that should also be installed. The supply house did not know of this. If this is the solution do I use both the trap and the valve (pz let me know what valve to get) and where does the trap and valve go. On the hot or cold side. Thanks...

Taco 702 setting

@ January 16, 2007 2:17 PM in Setback and Boiler (Outdoor) Reset

Thank you for your input re: the setback question. I started using a 2 degree setback and I'm charting my gas usage daily with very minimal settings programmed in the ODR. We keep the house at 71 in the evening and I just can't in all good conscious keep it 71 overnight. so we started using 69 overnight and all day. Does anyone have any answers about the taco 702 settings? On the blind I have the outside des. at 0, the boiler min at 80 and the boil des. at 175. The house is nice and warm but I'm still trying to get my gas usage down. This cold snap may tell much on that issue. With the new ODR I have a catch 22 situation. My master bath before ODR only had a kickspace heater. This room has a 15' vault and was always too chilly for showering etc. So I installed 8' of additional baseboard in addtion to the kickspace heater and put it on a separate zone. Before the ODR install we would close that door overnight with stat set at 60 so it would not go on (it can get as cold as 63) and then have the stat bring it up to 73 at 7am. However with the ODR set at such low water temps I would have to set the stat to reach setpoint at 5am so that at 7am she's at 73. Do you think I should start keeping the heat on in that bath say at 70 all the time (only overnight?) and then program the stat to 73 so the room is always warm, even when not in use? I guess if that answer is yes then i should still keep the door closed. If open it connects to my master bedroom which is typically set to 69/70 on its separate zone.

Setback and Boiler (Outdoor) Reset

@ January 15, 2007 4:55 PM in Setback and Boiler (Outdoor) Reset

On Dec. 20th '06 I had a Taco 702, 2 stage, outdoor reset installed on my oversized Burnham Revolution Boiler. My question has to do with settings and if I should use setback on my stats. The home is a 2400 sq. ft ranch with slant fin multipak 80 high output fin baseboard. I also have 2 zones and a 3rd zone is an indirect DHW with priority. I have fiddled with the settings of the Taco and I'm trying to get the most efficient settings for my environment. I live in Easton, PA. Burnham has told me I can go as low as 80 on the boiler min. setting because the Rev. can handle 55 return temps. Others have said that is too low for convection baseboard to be efficient. I have fiddled with the design temp anywhere from 0 to 9 degrees and the min boiler temp from 80 to 115. I have the boiler design at 180. I really see no difference in all the settings because I'm sure it has to be set at a certain setting over a long period of time. I do note that if I have the outdoor design set to 0 and the boiler min set to 80 then it takes a real long time to get the house up to temp. now its possible this might be the most efficient setting and to use hardly any setback. that remains open to conjecture. So that is one issue. The other issue is: should I be using setback in conjunction with other settings? I have the overnight set to 66 the day at 68 and the evening at 71. Is this more efficient than just keeping it at a steady temp or using less of a setback? If anyone can help with the Taco settings in my environment and the setback question I'd be much obliged.

what do the settings mean?

@ December 25, 2006 2:03 AM in Taco 702 Outdoor Reset Not Helping???

hi: While I will fiddle with the control I am somewhat in the dark as to what happens when making changes to the Taco's settings. IE: what exactly happens when say you lower the boiler design temp from 190 to 180? How do you know what setting it should be for a particular boiler? also how about the relationship of raising the min. boil temp from 80 to 115 and at the sametime lowering the outdoor design temp from 10 to zero. What eactly is the correlation between these 3 settings? I ask this because the Taco instructions do not explain what exactly is happening (or i dont understand them) when you lower this and raise that etc. Thanks...

settings

@ December 23, 2006 3:34 PM in Taco 702 Outdoor Reset Not Helping???

hi: Thank you gentlemen for your input. I just changed the settings to the Taco and Visionpro. The Taco is now set to 0 outdoor design and min boiler is now 115. I left max boiler at 190 and the other settings are 70. With the Visionpro I'm still using a setback (can't help it I've been doing it so long) but will tinker with it and possibly eliminate it as per your advice. I did cut it back. Its now set at 11PM to 9AM @68 degrees 9AM to 5PM @70 then 5PM to 11PM @72 degrees. I just made note of my gas meter reading and will track gas usage closely. thanks again...

suggestion from cc rob and bob sweet

@ December 23, 2006 1:55 PM in Taco 702 Outdoor Reset Not Helping???

hi: Thanks for the very interesting and informative advice. Yes I realize that 2 days is not nearly enough time to evaluate. I paid so much denaro for my boiler system, then found out it was oversized, causing more unneeded gas usage expense. Now I pay $1300 for the Taco and orifices. I guess I want to see payback FAST. Yes you are correct. The tecmar 260 was initially suggested for my Revolution, but Burnham switched gears and said the 2 stage Taco 702 would get the most efficiency out of the Revolution. I believe you are also correct when stating that stage 1 is the internal circ and stage 2 is the burner. Now I am a novice with this control. I truly do not FULLY understand the settings and what makes what do what. I was told (by burnham) to set the BOILER MIN> to 80 degrees. I think both of you are saying to set that to a higher number. Something like 115 to 130? And the BOILER DESIGN to 180? From what I've determined so far is if I raise the OUTDOOR DESIGN setting up then the supply water is hotter and the house heats faster (albeit more gas usage). Originally it was set to 0 degrees but it takes too long to heat up the house. I now have it at 8 degrees. My house has some high cathedrals in the large zone and my large kitchen has a hydronic kick space heater under the sink cabinet. Eventually I would like to install radiant under the entire tile area in the kitchen, dinette and mudroom (all one area 500 sq.ft) and hope that this control will lower my bills to justify more expense. If you can give me some exact settings for the Taco 702 to MAXIMIZE the efficiency I'd appreciate it. I know I will have to tinker with the settings, but I want the visionPro, which does have a cycle rate setting to normalize. Also not sure what the OUTDOOR AND BOIL START settings should be. They are at 70 right now. Lastly we keep the large zone at 66 overnight, 67 at 9am and 71 at 5pm. If anything we wouldn't mind the 9&5 to be a little warmer (68 and 73). Thanks and happy holidays to all.

Taco 702 Outdoor Reset Not Helping???

@ December 22, 2006 9:09 PM in Taco 702 Outdoor Reset Not Helping???

I just had a Taco Outdoor reset pc-702 and Taco 6 zone relay installed for $1300. They also reduced the size of my gas orifices from .45 to .48 as per Burnham engineer recommendations. I have an oversized Burnham Revolution rv5 in a ranch with a heat loss of about 40,000 btu. I'm only using the Taco Outdoor Reset 2 days and I know that is not a proper amount of time to be judgemental but preliminary gas usage is the same or possibly more! I can't tell yet because it has gotten a little colder outside. I have the design outdoor temp set to 8 degrees. When set at zero it took the largest zone 4 hrs to heat from 67 to 71 degrees (it took about 40 min. w/o the taco). I was told that my Honeywell Visionpro 8000 has to acclimate itself to the Taco and it can take a week. I have now upped the outdoor design temp to 8 degrees to get some hotter water thru the supply. I have 3 zones with an indirect heater as 4th zone priority, using taco 007 circs with slant fin high output multipak 80 baseboard. Should I just give the system time (1 month) to work itself in or does anyone suspect a problem even though it may be too early to determine. Thanks... ps. taco settings...boil start= 70, outdoor start=70, boil design=190, boil min supply=80 (was told to go that low cause revolution can handle 55 ret. temps), Diff=Ad, wwsd=70

mixing valve questions

@ November 26, 2006 5:37 PM in Indirect Heater and Mixing Valve

hey thanks everyone for all the info. KPC, to answer your question I'm using a Burnham Alliance 40 gal. indirect. Its 3 yrs old. So it seems I should keep the tank at say 150 degrees and then this tempering or mixing valve will "blend" the water down to 120 degrees. So its always 150 in the tank and 120 at faucets, appliances etc. ok I got it. lastly how do you regulate the temp. to the faucets, appliances to a specific temp like 120 degrees? Thanks.

@ November 25, 2006 4:25 PM in Indirect Heater and Mixing Valve

hi: Is there much difference in fuel usage??? When I thought about it I figured that yes we will be using less hot water because we wont turn that hot water faucet dial on as much. More cold faucet and less hot faucet. But appliances like washing machines and DW don't know that and will pour 160 water in. Is this correct?

Indirect Water Heater and Mixing Valve

@ November 25, 2006 3:43 PM in Indirect Heater and Mixing Valve

I have an 40 gallon indirect water heater working off a Burnham Revolution boiler utilizing a Taco 007, priority. I have the heater's aquastat set to 115 degrees which we find works well for our household. ie: we can't scald ourselves, dishes and clothes are getting cleaned etc. I set it at 115 degrees for the reasons listed and to also save on fuel. The one "small" problem (more of a nuisance) is when we fill our Jucuzzi she'll run out of hot water before the water level gets above the jets. We have to wait 10 minutes and then we can get the level over the jets. I was told by a tech that some agency (i forget who) recommends that the minimum setting should be 120 and they have now changed that to be 130 degrees so that there is no chance of germs, legionaires disease and other problems like that arising. His advice was to install a mixing valve and expansion tank on the water heater and then set the heater's aquastat to 160 degrees. He said then there is no germ problem and the whirlpool should fill in one shot. He also said even though you are keeping the heater at 160 I'll most likely use the same amt. of gas or possibly very very little more. It will probably be a wash. I think my heater drops 1/2 degree /hr according to the Alliance specs. More info: My HVAC co. came up with a 48,000 heat loss for my home. I used HVAC-CALC and measured every nook and cranny, took 5 hrs to do it and came up with a 30,000 heat/loss. The program also called for a 1 1/2 ton A/C and I have a 4 ton unit and my home cools beautifully so I don't know why such a difference in the heat/loss calc. Do you think the mixing valve (160 set temp) is worth doing and will it work? He also said that a separate expansion tank should also be installed. Something to do with the house water pressure and water meter. I have a water regulator installed on the main that he was not aware of which we keep at 60. thank you...

Indirect Water Heater and Mixing Valve

@ November 25, 2006 3:43 PM in Indirect Heater and Mixing Valve

I have an 40 gallon indirect water heater working off a Burnham Revolution boiler utilizing a Taco 007, priority. I have the heater's aquastat set to 115 degrees which we find works well for my household. ie: we can't scald ourselves, dishes and clothes are getting cleaned etc. I set it at 115 for the reasons listed and to also save on fuel. The one "small" problem (more of a nuisance) is when we fill our Jucuzzi she'll run out of hot water before the water level gets above the jets. We have to wait 10 minutes and then we can get the level over the jets. I was told by a tech that some agency (i forget who) recommends that the minimum setting should be 120 and they have now changed that to be 130 degrees so that there is no chance of germs, legionaires disease and other problems like that arising. His advice was to install a mixing valve and expansion tank on the water heater and then set it to 160 degrees. He said then there is no germ problem and the whirlpool should fill in one shot. He also said even though you are keeping the heater at 160 I'll most likely use the same amt. of gas or possibly very very little more. I think my heater drops 1/2 degree /hr according to the Alliance specs. More info: My HVAC co. came up with a 48,000 heat loss for my home. I used HVAC-CALC and measured every nook and cranny, took 5 hrs to do it and came up with a 30,000 heat/loss. The program also called for a 1 1/2 ton A/C and I have a 4 ton unit and my home cools beautifully so I don't know why such a difference in the heat/loss calc. Do you think the mixing valve (160 set temp) is worth doing and will it work? He also said that a separate expansion tank should also be installed. Something to do with the house water pressure and water meter. I have a water regulator installed on the main that he was not aware of which we keep at 60. thank you...