Heating Help

Refrigeration Galore!

@ March 18, 2007 2:38 PM in Milk Coolers Again!

Hello all, If anyone has missed some good refrigeration questions, I am trying to overcompensate today. Actually I tried yesterday but the message got canned when the kiddos got access to the puter! Mueller milk tank units are what we are working on. M# A51-HPF, S# 85D-0003-51C. Tank 1 was not cooling down quickly so we looked at the condenser on the right side(was not sweating like the other unit). These are the readings we got: milk temp-49° F, 48 lbs low, 170 liquid. According to the manual we have, the suction pressure should be 55-60 lbs. Added R-22 per manual. Milk temp now 46°F, 54 lbs low, 175 hi. Checked subcooling because we have a subcooling valve(sensing bulb on the outlet of condenser). According to manual we should have 10° subcooling, we had fluctation from 2 to 8° F. Added more 22. Milk now at 42° F and 52 lbs low, 170 hi, subcooling still fluctuating. I am recommending replacing the subcooling valve. Any thoughts?? Tank 2 the next day(3-16) and 36° ambient. Same model condensers. Right hand side=milk temp 55°, 65 lbs lo, 140 hi, subcooling 15-20°. Discharge line temp 107°. According to the book anything below 150° discharge line temp is overcharged. Left hand side= milk temp 55°, 55 lbs low, 140 hi, subcooling 20-25°. Discharge line temp, 134°. Both units on the same tank. I called the supplier we buy parts for and got a service tech to call me back to run these numbers buy. He tells me that they don't really mean anything to him. If he is having trouble with a unit, he "recovers" with the comp. and weighs the charge. Assumes that there is 3 lbs in the system and recharges accordingly. Any thoughts! I like the idea of recovering the charge to check for accuracy, but there seems to be more going on than just "charge" issues. It is getting warmer! Don in MO

Understanding what you are doing!

@ March 13, 2007 12:26 AM in Cooling load sizing

Hi all, I attended a class on sizing refrigeration systems. The guy who gave it was "old school" in the best sense. He works for URI in the Kansas City area. Told the story how he was waiting for a load calc to be done and called the factory about why it was taking so long? The reply? The computer was down and they did not know how to do it manually!! He laughed and said that is the only way they did it back then, before computers. An aside, but still relative to the thread. I told my boss that the school was more about sizing than troubleshooting. I and the other service tech went because he was new to refrigeration. The boss was disappointed, thinking the class a waste of time! I informed him that to be able to troubleshoot something you really ought to know how something was designed and how it works together as a complete system!! But then again I could be wrong?! Don in Mo

Maytag

@ February 7, 2007 9:35 PM in washing machine

Sorry, the Atlantis was not "maytag" but a division appliance design. The only Maytag washer and dryers built in Newton were the Neptune line. I have the old Neptune series and love it, but you might not be able to find it anymore. I would go with Whirlpool from the domestic manufacturers, not sure about anything made overseas. I would look for the maytag tag on whirlpool built stuff in the next 10 years or less, just like Kitchenaid, Roper, etc is all the same inside with different looks outside and different labels and warranties. Don in Mo

The worse part is

@ January 23, 2007 9:47 PM in I knew there would be a problem

I work with people that would look at the ductwork and go, "So what is the customers complaint?" or "duct problem?!, I don't see a duct problem!" As long as air is moving it must work right? Don in MO

Replacing R22 with R410a

@ January 18, 2007 10:17 PM in 410A vs R22

Depends on how old the evap is? If it has any age at all you will need to replace the evap to match the new condensing unit, a little thing about SEER ratings and such. Some old evaps were dual rated, but if you install a new 13 Seer unit you will need to match the evap to the cond. to get the proper Seer rating and capacity that the new condensor is rated. You can go to the ARI website and see how the units match up and what the Seer level and capacity are. Don in Mo

Sporlan

@ December 30, 2006 8:17 AM in Walk-in Cooler

Has what you need. Go to WWW.sporlan.com and click literature. Go to txv's and find bulliten 10-11. It has a picture of evap below comp. You should be able to print and show how the txv bulb should be installed. My question is it a quick connect system? No brazing required? If it is most installers don't worry about piping issues because it is connect and forget! I have seen too many installs of refrigeration without low ambient controls or proper piping because they sold it for the low ball customer that did not know any better. Still do not know why the ice maker manufacturers have quick connect line sets, but detailed instructions on proper piping that most won't bother with because it is "connect and forget, you don't need to know how or what you are doing. We just want to sell boxes" Let us know how the education is going! Don in Mo

More Pictures

@ December 21, 2006 10:40 PM in bulk milk coolers

Hi all, I got some more pics today. Fired up the unit and doulble checked some readings. 26 lbs suction, 33F suction temp at comp. 175 lbs liquid, 165 lbs after removing plasic from condenser to let air thru. Liquid line site glass still bubbles, but believe from lack of air flow. Single cond fan with only 4 of 6 blades remaining. Customer to replace when gets more money! Tank site glass half full. Hopefully these pics help explain what I have been working on. After talking to Terry, I believe the metering device is a float type, Hi or low side don't know still! After talking to the customer some more this afternoon I believe I won't have to work on it again if something major happens. He told me that this tank is too large(800 gallons), he only needs a 500 gal tank. Says He can get one at an auction for around $500. Apparantly the scrap metal would be more valuable than the working machine! He also told me that he just started Dairy farming. Learning as he goes! Any other info I can get anyone? Thanks Don in Mo

Pictures

@ December 20, 2006 10:51 PM in bulk milk coolers

A big thank you to Terry!! Here are the pictures I took today. Hopefully my describtions will now make sense. I will go back tomorrow and take better pics and do some adustments. Don in Mo

The Wall

@ December 20, 2006 8:19 AM in bulk milk coolers

What I meant about the wall is acually the Library. How many times do you get told something is obselete, but still in working order and would be able to stay that way if you had some info?! I know that everything has a life span, but there are times when it would be nice to save equipment for posterity. Don in MO

Bulk Milk cooler Mojonnier

@ December 19, 2006 11:13 PM in bulk milk coolers

Thanks Steve, Customer called tonite and said to fix it up. Will do the best we can with what we have and go from there. If you do find out anything, please call me at 660-651-9825. I did find the company that bought out Mojonnier, but they could not tell me anything about the milk coolers, only carbo coolers. The company had moved from Chicago long ago. The tag did say Chicago 44 Illinois. Don't know if that is an old address or what! I would love a wall for refrigeration like Dan has for hydronic heating! To be able to read why and how something was designed is invaluable when you are trying to resurrect from the dead!! I am taking pictures tomorrow and will post tomorrow nite if not sooner. Thanks all Don in Mo

Mojonnier Brothers milk cooler

@ December 19, 2006 4:03 PM in bulk milk coolers

Anyone have info on Mojonnier Brothers bulk milk cooler? I looked at one this morning and would like to know how to charge it. I am assuming it is a flooded evap. It has a cylinder with a site glass in the side at the inlet and outlet of the tank. Was told that the site glass should be half full. They have R-414b in it. I am going to remove the suction line drier and fix the leaks. Model 800v Serial 10954 Any info would be appreciated! Don in MO

That is the problem!

@ December 6, 2006 12:00 AM in Eliminate mated plugs

They do not design for service! Oh they might make it easier to get to the wiring or the compressor, but to actually design for the service end of it would raise the price thru the roof. Please, correct me if I am wrong! It is the same mentality where I work. As long as the sale is made, the owner doesn't want to hear how the install was messed up! Oh we will fix it, but don't spend anytime soothing the customer and never agree that the work was below standerds and that the customer can go somewhere else if they want, because the customer knows that the company doesn't really care about them! No, I want to be the best, just don't remind me that I should train the installers or fire them for poor workmanship! It is all about sales! Ask any manufacturer! Don in MO

R-22 vs R410a

@ December 5, 2006 11:50 PM in R22 vs. R410-A

Just my personal opinion, but I do not see a problem with r-22. I agree that if you are doing something for the long haul to go r410a. My problem is the "sky is falling" mentality that r-22 is now worthless and will be worth too much because you can't get any after 2010. You can still get R-12, granted it is a little pricey. The big difference with 22 is that it has been coming down the road for too long. I just don't see a great shortage of it in the future, when all the manufacurers are moving to 410a before the deadline! No! It does not make sense to use 22 unless you are getting a bargain, i.e. saving thousands not hundreds, but people are people and will do anything to save a buck! jmho, Don in MO

Victory no help

@ November 21, 2006 10:47 PM in Victory upright freezer

Yes I will be getting a drain tube heater or the copper wire. Talked to Victory today and they wanted to know how cold it was. I told them 0, since it is a freezer and had already been told that it would freeze the drain line if it was below 0. Now how do you explain to a customer that your freezer is too cold?! Anyway the suggestion was insulate the drain line or get a heater for it, but not from us because it doesn't need one. Thanks for the replies and will find out in about 4 months or so how it works out. Don in Mo

Victory Upright Freezer

@ November 20, 2006 11:23 PM in Victory upright freezer

Hi all, I am having a problem with a Victroy VF-1 single door freezer. The drain freezes up. Anyone experiance this problem before? Thanks Don in MO

Get a sucker

@ November 5, 2006 11:06 PM in Refracto-what?

You need an oil pump kit that can suck out the oil thru the suction line. They make a kit or you can make one if you have an oil pump. I use a Yellow Jacket brand. Took oil out of a 3/4 hp semi-hermetic. What kind of system are you working on, refrigeration or a/c? Don in Mo

What about LP?

@ September 27, 2006 9:55 PM in Gas Stove

Does that still aply to propane? Parental control and commom sense, it still exits but failing fast for most people. Don in Mo, father to 8 kids and love gas cooktops.

Where at?

@ September 18, 2006 10:50 PM in Expansion tank - gravity system

I don't know where you live, but go to the nearest "farm & home" supply and get a small plastic stock tank that would match your current capacity. You would have to make fittings for it or maybe not, I have never bought a stock tank before, but have seen bigger ones used for swimming pools. If someone knows this won't work, let me know!! Don in Mo

Where is it?

@ September 15, 2006 6:51 PM in James L. Bergman

Where is this article or manual, so we all can read it! Don in Mo

Look into the past

@ September 10, 2006 8:02 PM in Another 10/13 ?

and you will see that 10 SEER equipment would turn into 11 or 12 SEER with the substitution of a larger evap coil and/or a TXV addition. Also blower-off delays, etc. ARI books and OEM manuals should give you that info! I just find it hard to believe that last year they had 13 SEER equipment from orfice fittings and now hardly anyone has the same rating unless you go TXV!?! Not that I'm against TXV's, it just seems that the OEMs are taking advantage of the situation, just like the EPA regs. How much money has been made off recover, recyle and reclaim?? New refrigerants?? Don in MO

@ September 6, 2006 10:30 PM in Walk in Cooler

The more I think about it the more I wondered if it is low on charge, but with over 10 degrees of subcooling, I'm not really seeing it that way. I went back today, but only to visually check it. Boss has scheduled me for to much work. I was running 35 to 39 degrees. It did shut off. Before it did I noticed that the inlet of the coil was iced, telling me it was shutting off. But still acting like it is low on charge. Talk more with the customer and told me that every once in a while they have to defrost the coil completely. I am thinking of putting in a defrost cycle for 30 min. once a day. Also thinking of recovering the charge and checking the screen in the txv. I have a chart for that unit with total charge. Will see if I have time to mess with it and if the customer wants to spend the money, since it is "working" now. Don in MO

Walk in Cooler-What's Wrong?

@ September 5, 2006 11:24 PM in Walk in Cooler

Hi all, Got some info for you to digest. Bohn cond. m#BHT015H2cf S#T98J01118. Heatcraft Evap M#ADT104AJ S# D98F04155. Sporlan TXV BFVE-A-C. 5/8 suction, 3/8 liquid. Cond above evap on top of cooler. Less than 10ft of line set. R-22. Called because Evap froze up. Checked system today and found middle of evap frosted and frost from dist to coil. No frost on top or bottom of coil looking at the back of unit, but frosted clear thru the middle. Attatched gauges, 20 lbs lo, 190 hi. Taken at service ports on outlet of cond. coil. Did not take sh or sc. Site glass clear, headmaster did not seem to be bypassing. Left comp. off and evap fans running. Box temp at 40 degrees F. ambient at 70 to 75. The cooler is inside a distribution center. came back 21/2 hours later. Coil clear. Started up unit. Box is empty and 60 degrees. Let unit run and took sh and sc. Maintained 20 sh at txv and service valves. Site glass still clear. Box at 40 degrees, 38lbs lo, 190 lbs hi, 34 degrees at txv bulb, 38 at service valve. 82 at liquid line service valve. 75 degree ambient at cond. site glass still clear. Talk to customer contact, had mentioned that they had charged it lately. He told me that they had put 2 pounds in it last week. After that it was freezing up on the bottom of the evap coil. They let it defrost and now it frosts up in the middle. Told him I would come back tomorrow and see if the stat is shutting off. I know that today I saw frost, not ice. That tells me the unit did not shut off and thaw. I do not know what the customer saw, frost or ice? Unit has no defrost clock. Stat set at 38-39 on and about 5degree diff. No pump down, stat controlls contactor only. Suction press. seems low for 40 degrees in box. SH a little hi but not a long line-set and not at cut out temp and no load in the box. Liquid line press also seems lo and riding on the headmasters bypass point. Need to get the setting tomorrow! Should be 180, but you never know!! Asked the customer if they found the leak? No, guess there wasn't one. I said if they put in 2 pounds there is probably a leak, but what if it was not charged properly? System is about 8 years old according to the Serial numbers. Do I have a bad txv, stat, comp. or what. Just looking for some opinions. Will make up my mind tomorrow, I hope! And will try to get any info anyone needs! Don in Moberly MO